Putin Is Running out of Red Lines

OK ATSers of all factions and flavors, can we try and stay on point here, the THREAD IS ABOUT IS PUTIN RUNNING OUT OF VIABLE RESPONSES, no more no less. It's as if Bakmhut is a microcosm of the whole Special Military Operation, sure you won Bakmhut, but at what cost and what did he actually win? A shelled-out muddy pit? I can't see it ever being anything but symbolic of the Ukrainian resistance. Even if he could snap his fingers and get the territory in the east and Crimea, what does he ultimately win? He has 40 million plus pissed-off Ukrainians perpetually next door

Thats where Im leaning towards but I'm not ever certain, but it's why Im broaching this specifically focused detail, for other specific opinions. As is mentioned in the article even his allies China and India won't support Putin's "using nukes" It's not a measured response, it's turned the mention of using them, akin to Hitler's vengeance or terror weapons of WWII. Even if in his paranoid delusional world he could somehow nuke parts of Ukraine without a NATO response, would that actually make him feel more safe and secure in the long run? Think about it, it's highly unlikely and it's likely to make his paranoia worse, much worse

He already has internal factions emboldened by Ukraine, nipping at his borders and becoming an overt irritant if nothing else, but more importantly, sewing fear among the nervous and no doubt growingly paranoid average Russian.

Read somewhere that in Moscow, multiple courthouses had to be evacuated for bomb threats the other day, don't know the veracity but if things like that are occurring, it just symbolizes he doesn't have the Russian citizen completely behind his efforts in Ukraine. Thus will always be looking over his shoulder long after his SMO is over.

Thoughts ....


www.newsweek.com...

Since the start of the Russian president's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. and its allies have incrementally stepped up their provision of headline-grabbing weapons. HIMARS, the M777 Howitzers and the Leopard and Challenger tanks and, most recently, Patriot missile systems have all made a difference in the war with no stern response from Russia—so far.

Nuclear Threat
But this threat has dissipated, with analysts saying they would confer Putin no advantage and amid reports that China and India, key allies for Putin, oppose their use. Battlefield setbacks and exposed weaknesses in Moscow's military forces restrict what Putin could do next in response to the provision of F-16s.

"Simply put, unless Putin is willing to deploy its nuclear weapons, Moscow cannot retaliate in a meaningful way," Wes Renfro, political science professor at Quinnipiac University, Hamden, Connecticut. "Escalation with nuclear weapons is a losing game for Putin and is unlikely until or unless the Ukrainian boondoggle threatens his grip on power," he told Newsweek.

The details of how F-16s will be given to Ukraine are still to be hammered out, and the typical training period for a pilot is two years. Even if that time frame is truncated by Ukraine's urge to get them in the air, there is a long wait to see if they will change things on the ground.

"The main significance of Biden's decision to authorize the delivery of F16s to Ukraine is that it is a way for the U.S. to signal its long-term commitment to Ukraine," said Peter Rutland, professor of Russian, East European and Eurasian Studies at Wesleyan University, Middletown, Connecticut.

"The planes are not going to be a game-changer on the battlefield, given the strength of Russian air defenses," Rutland told Newsweek. "But Putin is playing a waiting game, hoping that the West will lose interest in supporting Ukraine if the fighting this spring fails to break the stalemate on the front line.

a reply to: putnam6

If the script says hes running out of red lines then hes running out if red lines.

If the script says 100 more red lines then there will be 100 more

Its all in the script.

that guy has been out of red lines for about a decade, as best as I can recall

when it comes to nukes, he is all talk. if he even has them!

originally posted by: putnam6
It's as if Bakmhut is a microcosm of the whole Special Military Operation, sure you won Bakmhut, but at what cost and what did he actually win? A shelled-out muddy pit?

A shelled out muddy pit gained is standard practice for Russian offensives. Grozny, virtually every town and city in Eastern Europe pretty much all the way to Berlin in WW2. It's just what they do over there. A new version of the old city will appear in the future and it's game on again for some sort of society. Run by Russia.

a reply to: Salamandy

Until he isnt

a reply to: visitedbythem

that is my point as well. why does the media waste keystrokes on this nuke talk? he has been saying for years and nothing ever happens and if it does, well it does...

Personally I think Russia should take a leaf out of the USA playbook and use nukes in Ukraine to end the special operation.

It will save russian lives which is a good thing.

NATO would not react as they are too scared of getting nuked themselves.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

im sure some evil guys in suits have discussed this option. even more reason why the US needs to butt out. Clean up your own house first and just mind our own damned business

a reply to: putnam6

Putin Is Running out of Red Lines

By the looks of things, given the mess he has made in Ukraine, his hubris and his nation's current predicament.

That's perhaps because he's been busy snorting all the white lines.

originally posted by: putnam6

Thoughts ....

Try easing up on the western msm propaganda..?

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

You want nukes to be used?!!! That would be MAD.

a reply to: putnam6

Really
Think you should find a bit more balance in the propaganda pages you are reading.
Putin can do this for years
40 mill pissed of Ukrainians, never mind all those in the West who hate him, what’s a few more Ukrainians

Nukes, pretty sure he has plenty of conventional weapons he hasn’t used yet, remember Chechnya?

Ukraine is a US proxy war, the US stop supporting Ukraine and it’s over. The US economy will collapse before Russia

As for his support, it’s debatable but I would expect he is more popular than Biden at the moment. He is winning a war for part of Russia, most Russians see Ukraine as Russia

Not sure he is in a hurry and probably satisfied with the land already annexed, clear run to a winter sea port in the “South of Russia” now

a reply to: putnam6

What did Stalin win when he took back Stalingrad? The place was a pile of rubble. It's about symbolism.

He is showing the Western world he will pound Ukraine into dust and then march over it.

The funny thing is if Ukraine took back Bakmhut tomorrow everyone would be yelling Slava Ukrani and talking about how this is such a great victory for Ukraine. Why? It's a "shelled-out muddy pit" as you said. Symbolism.

originally posted by: soundsofmadness
a reply to: putnam6

If the script says hes running out of red lines then hes running out if red lines.

If the script says 100 more red lines then there will be 100 more

Its all in the script.

There never was any red lines to begin with. Putin/Russia know now that in a conventional face off with NATO, they're #ed. And despite all his rhetoric about "whats a world without Russia", Putin doesn't want to die or be remembered as the person that caused the total destruction of Russia. He wants to be Peter the Great not Gorbachev.

With the newest border incursion, I am surprised he hasn't tried to activate whatever the CSTO's version of Article 5 is. Maybe because he knows that Kyrgyzstan ain't coming. Armenia ain't coming. Maybe the Tajiks will send some reinforcements? Belarus has avoided going all in and with the concerns surrounding Lukeshenko, the Belrussians are probably much more worried about what happens when a 20+ year dictator dies then wanting to get their asses handed to them in Ukraine.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: soundsofmadness
a reply to: putnam6

If the script says hes running out of red lines then hes running out if red lines.

If the script says 100 more red lines then there will be 100 more

Its all in the script.

So you think its all random and unscripted?

At this point that makes you the crazy one

originally posted by: putnam6

Thoughts ....

Yes...

Stop consuming propaganda.

At this point the MIC has you all on a 24/7 copium drip.

Putin is not running out of red lines, soldiers, or missiles. These red lines you speak of would be considered acts of war by many nations. The fact he has not retaliated against foreign entities arming terrorists to carry out terrorist attacks in Russia on civilians speeks more to his character than it does to the war pigs prolonging this conflict.

It's like Trump all over again. I'm not a big fan of Trump or Putin but I can't sit back and watch people propagate out right lies for the establishment in an attempt to manufacture people's content for war.

I feel we are lucky Putin isn't the madman they claim because if he was he surely would have destroyed the planet by now from these provocations from NATO and America.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: putnam6

Putin Is Running out of Red Lines

That's perhaps because he's been busy snorting all the white lines.

Hahaha good one...

Unfortunately you got the wrong dictator...

a reply to: putnam6

You realize at the end of the day Putin and Biden and Hillary and Obama and all the rest of them are all friends laughing at you right?