Will you take the H5N1 bird flu vaccine

originally posted by: chr0naut
What color was their shirt when they wrote up the article?

You spout claims with data which quite clearly doesn’t support them, and this is your retort?

Priceless. Broken bot or willfully ignorant?

originally posted by: chr0naut
It is a bit disingenuous to post a link to one paper and then quote from another unlinked (and now withdrawn) paper, implying there is a connection between them.

Here’s an idea. Clean up your own backyard regarding sources. It will help your future endeavors as far as credibility. Unreal.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't care what the study shows. All I know is that people who got vaccinated are dropping like flies with heart attacks, from the age of 15 and up. Healthy football, basketball, and baseball stars. If you feel comfortable risking that, more power to you. I'm glad I wasn't dumb enough to fall for it and none of my family or friends were.

People were dropping like flies from heart attacks prior to the vaccines. It has been the number 1 cause of death in first world countries, for decades.

Heart attack deaths in 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 - ONS

Overall, heart attack statistics have fallen during the last 20 years:

Heart Attack Deaths Drop Over Past Two Decades - American College of Cardiology 2023 report

The alleged rise in heart attacks in young people is part of a social media anti-vax campaign and the recent fluctuations in numbers are officially suspected to be related more to the effects of the pandemic, which peaked in number of active infections in January 2023.

You are mistaken for once more and you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. Pretty much every single case of heart relating conditions post vaccination, with the possible exception of only very few, are due to the free spike protein from the mRNA products.

Here is the peer reviewed publication you seem to ignore it disregard as I have posted many times in the past.

www.ahajournals.org...

The study shows that the immunological response elicited by the mRNA vaccine was very similar in those who developed post-vaccination myocarditis and others. In other words, myocarditis could not be associated with abnormal autoantibodies, viral infections other than SARS-CoV-2, or excessive production of antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine.

In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable.

The vast majority of cases of myocarditis post vaccination are due to the free spike protein i.e due to the mRNA vaccines. That is true for all other related heart issues post vaccination. This study proves in a few words that the usual suspect is most likely responsible for any problems created post vaccination.

I am not ignoring the paper, but it is about a single case, in a single patient, and there have been no similar papers or cases where such has been observed. Since this was only observed once, it may possibly even have been experimental error (although the paper looks fairly scientifically rigorous).

There are many other case studies and papers where it turned out that there was evidences of the disease in suspected adverse reactions.

No a research paper is not written about a single case and a single patient. There is no error and you don't know what you are talking about for once more.

The adverse reactions and conditions post vaccination are due to the vaccines in the vast majority of cases and not to anything else. It is disingenuous to claim otherwise. It's the free spike protein that is responsible for the pathogenesis and not climate change, SARS-CoV-2, the Republicans or Donald Trump.

I was not referring to the paper that you posted a link to, but to the paper you quoted from. They are two different papers.

It is a bit disingenuous to post a link to one paper and then quote from another unlinked (and now withdrawn) paper, implying there is a connection between them.

I was only referring to one paper which is the one I linked.

www.ahajournals.org...#:~:text=A%20notable%20finding%20was%20that,test%3B%20P%3C0.0001).


Which one is the other unlinked paper that has been withdrawn? I only used the one above numerous times and I have made a thread about it.

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: chr0naut
Vaccines use the human immune system. They don't prevent it from functioning.

So enlighten us as to your insight here. How does vaccines generally interact with the immune system? What role does antibodies have during infection? Do you believe all vaccines are the same? By all means, use Google.

Vaccines present the immune system with aspects of a pathogen, so that there can be an immune response prior to infection. They also can reinforce immune response in situations where immune response degrades over time.

The immune system has time to identify those aspects of the pathogen as 'alien' to normal biology, and to generate antibodies to the pathogen.

Antibodies bind chemically specifically only to those aspects of the pathogen and provide an attached identifier so that the immune system's 'killer cells' can target, attach, envelop, and destroy the pathogens.

There are a range of different types of vaccines. The older types had whole pathogens, but killed or disabled, there are vaccines with minute amounts of the toxins produced by a pathogen attack, there are vaccines that only contain aspects of the pathogen, there are mRNA and DNA vaccines which contain the genomic code for the cells to recreate parts of a pathogen.

Alongside most vaccines are additions into the vaccines called adjuvants which are like chemical 'irritants' that have the effect of creating a stronger immune response than would be normal.

originally posted by: chr0naut
Vaccines present the immune system with aspects of a pathogen, so that there can be an immune response prior to infection. They also can reinforce immune response…

That wasn't so difficult, was it? And while there's obviously more to the subject – you've shown at least a rudimentary capacity to research and comprehend.

Now apply the same ability when attempting to find and share sources to support whatever claim you currently fancy .

So which was it? Intellectual dishonesty?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: chr0naut

I am aware that the mortality data is not complete for recent years. That cuts both ways, as those drawing wild doom porn conclusions are basing them on volatile, incomplete and provisional data.

I call those who take minute upswings…(snip)

Wow ok. So let’s unpack this, shall we? What do consider to be the expected relation between a claim and included data purported to support said claim?

What color was their shirt when they wrote up the article?

The data is simply incomplete - for both sides of the argument. We need to have the dataset finalized before jumping to confusions.

The American College of Cardiology and the World Congress of Cardiology are at the forefront of cardiac care and they would be well aware if their caseload had suddenly exploded. They are, however, reporting that cases have dropped significantly over the last decade, and are using finalized data as a basis of that report.

www.ahajournals.org...

The study shows that the immunological response elicited by the mRNA vaccine was very similar in those who developed post-vaccination myocarditis and others. In other words, myocarditis could not be associated with abnormal autoantibodies, viral infections other than SARS-CoV-2, or excessive production of antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine.

In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable.

The vast majority of cases of myocarditis post vaccination are due to the free spike protein i.e due to the mRNA vaccines. That is true for all other related heart issues post vaccination. This study proves in a few words that the usual suspect is most likely responsible for any problems created post vaccination.


Very simply a bombshell study. Well known by now.

a reply to: chr0naut

These mRNA products not only can cause myocarditis, pericarditis, myopericarditis, heart attacks, strokes and blood clots, but a range of autoimmune disorders and immune dysfunctions. The assertion you made that they cannot impair the immune system is obviously not correct. They can actually cause death either with any of the severe adverse reactions described above or by suddenitis...

Coming back to whether one will use any vaccines for the H5N1 virus. I think many have learnt their lesson and unless they know the short, medium, and long terms effects, as well as the benefit to risk ratio for all age groups, they won't even a touch a vaccine from now on.

a reply to: Asmodeus3
I certainly sympathize with your perspective. Hell, I agree with it. But I would suggest you support your argument with more than, well, your unsubstantiated argument. That’s how you move things forward. If you can’t or - won’t. Then for f’s sake, don’t.

originally posted by: Durden
a reply to: Asmodeus3
I certainly sympathize with your perspective. Hell, I agree with it. But I would suggest you support your argument with more than, well, your unsubstantiated argument. That’s how you move things forward. If you can’t or - won’t. Then for f’s sake, don’t.

I have already linked plenty of studies that show clearly the harms and deaths caused by these products and made several threads with actual cases of deaths confirmed by coroners and medical examiners. What exactly do you want to see?!

Take a look at my post above at 5:43AM
I have made a thread about this study which is a bombshell. A peer-reviewed publication that shows clearly that myocarditis post vaccination is most likely caused by the free spike protein and not by viral infections of any type including SARS-CoV-2.

You may have missed my post above or other posts and threads that I have made but certainly these ideas don't come out of my head. At this point is a repetition of what we already know.

By the way my post with the peer reviewed publication is just two posts above yours as I said above.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
You may have missed my post above or other posts and threads that I have made but certainly these ideas don't come out of my head. At this point is a repetition of what we already know.

Yeah, I certainly may have. But that’s your premise, don’t expect anyone to follow all of your posts. It might seem a bore, but that’s how it’s done. Always include the source of your claim. I’ve failed constantly on this, ending up in hours of explanations.

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
You may have missed my post above or other posts and threads that I have made but certainly these ideas don't come out of my head. At this point is a repetition of what we already know.

Yeah, I certainly may have. But that’s your premise, don’t expect anyone to follow all of your posts. It might seem a bore, but that’s how it’s done. Always include the source of your claim. I’ve failed constantly on this, ending up in hours of explanations.

I have already included a very good publication in this page and in the last few pages on this thread. I think it's quite visible and it's not possible to include every publication and every piece of evidence in just one post. If someone challenges this then I can easily provide more either from my threads or other threads.

For example

A young man who died due to vaccine-induced myocarditis not that long time ago.


www.usatoday.com...

A 26 year-old man from New Zealand died from myocarditis linked to the Pfizer vaccine, but health officials there said Monday that the benefits of the vaccine continue to "greatly outweigh" the risks

I made a thread about this sometime ago. Although I don't agree with that benefits of the vaccination for young and healthy people. The article clearly is trying to provide the usual apologies and excuses for the vaccines.

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: chr0naut
Vaccines present the immune system with aspects of a pathogen, so that there can be an immune response prior to infection. They also can reinforce immune response…

That wasn't so difficult, was it? And while there's obviously more to the subject – you've shown at least a rudimentary capacity to research and comprehend.

Now apply the same ability when attempting to find and share sources to support whatever claim you currently fancy

.

So which was it? Intellectual dishonesty?

I didn't have to look up anything in Google to give that answer. I, like most people who have been discussing the subject here over the last three years are fully aware of what a vaccine is.

Your implication that I don't know basic general information, in the light of the numerous posts here on ATS by myself and others, does not show up any ignorance on my part.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: chr0naut

I am aware that the mortality data is not complete for recent years. That cuts both ways, as those drawing wild doom porn conclusions are basing them on volatile, incomplete and provisional data.

I call those who take minute upswings…(snip)

Wow ok. So let’s unpack this, shall we? What do consider to be the expected relation between a claim and included data purported to support said claim?

What color was their shirt when they wrote up the article?

The data is simply incomplete - for both sides of the argument. We need to have the dataset finalized before jumping to confusions.

The American College of Cardiology and the World Congress of Cardiology are at the forefront of cardiac care and they would be well aware if their caseload had suddenly exploded. They are, however, reporting that cases have dropped significantly over the last decade, and are using finalized data as a basis of that report.

www.ahajournals.org...

The study shows that the immunological response elicited by the mRNA vaccine was very similar in those who developed post-vaccination myocarditis and others. In other words, myocarditis could not be associated with abnormal autoantibodies, viral infections other than SARS-CoV-2, or excessive production of antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine.

In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable.

The vast majority of cases of myocarditis post vaccination are due to the free spike protein i.e due to the mRNA vaccines. That is true for all other related heart issues post vaccination. This study proves in a few words that the usual suspect is most likely responsible for any problems created post vaccination.

Very simply a bombshell study. Well known by now.

The text you are quoting does not come from the study you are linking to.

You probably can't tell, because the paper is behind a paywall, and are repeating what you have read from one of many anti-vaxx astroturfing sites.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: chr0naut

These mRNA products not only can cause myocarditis, pericarditis, myopericarditis, heart attacks, strokes and blood clots, but a range of autoimmune disorders and immune dysfunctions. The assertion you made that they cannot impair the immune system is obviously not correct. They can actually cause death either with any of the severe adverse reactions described above or by suddenitis...

Coming back to whether one will use any vaccines for the H5N1 virus. I think many have learnt their lesson and unless they know the short, medium, and long terms effects, as well as the benefit to risk ratio for all age groups, they won't even a touch a vaccine from now on.

You do realize that there are different types of vaccines against COVID-19, and these different vaccines all have different lists of noted adverse reactions.

Blood clotting was one of the adverse reactions to the AstraZaneca and J&J vaccines, most possibly due to their viral vector delivery method initiating capillary leak.

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines do not use viral vector delivery, but are delivered by cell permeability to lipid encapsulated nanoparticles.

originally posted by: chr0naut
Your implication that I don't know basic general information, in the light of the numerous posts here on ATS by myself and others, does not show up any ignorance on my part.

I’ll give you another go for free. What was my point? By all means, do use your comprehension skills on this one.

originally posted by: chr0naut
The text you are quoting does not come from the study you are linking to.

Again, you’re throwing stone in a house of glass, as it were. Wash your underwear, kid.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Durden

originally posted by: chr0naut

I am aware that the mortality data is not complete for recent years. That cuts both ways, as those drawing wild doom porn conclusions are basing them on volatile, incomplete and provisional data.

I call those who take minute upswings…(snip)

Wow ok. So let’s unpack this, shall we? What do consider to be the expected relation between a claim and included data purported to support said claim?

What color was their shirt when they wrote up the article?

The data is simply incomplete - for both sides of the argument. We need to have the dataset finalized before jumping to confusions.

The American College of Cardiology and the World Congress of Cardiology are at the forefront of cardiac care and they would be well aware if their caseload had suddenly exploded. They are, however, reporting that cases have dropped significantly over the last decade, and are using finalized data as a basis of that report.

www.ahajournals.org...

The study shows that the immunological response elicited by the mRNA vaccine was very similar in those who developed post-vaccination myocarditis and others. In other words, myocarditis could not be associated with abnormal autoantibodies, viral infections other than SARS-CoV-2, or excessive production of antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine.

In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable.

The vast majority of cases of myocarditis post vaccination are due to the free spike protein i.e due to the mRNA vaccines. That is true for all other related heart issues post vaccination. This study proves in a few words that the usual suspect is most likely responsible for any problems created post vaccination.

Very simply a bombshell study. Well known by now.

The text you are quoting does not come from the study you are linking to.

You probably can't tell, because the paper is behind a paywall, and are repeating what you have read from one of many anti-vaxx astroturfing sites.

You are mistaken for once more. It is proven that most of your claims are wrong. The herd immunity claims you have made, the Cambrian Explosion nonsense, natural immunity, safety and efficacy of the vaccines, etc.

You have also missed other parts of my posts and you are attacking the strawman for once more by claiming anti-vaccination sites when clearly I used a peer reviewed publication that you don't know how to interpret. I admire that you keep going on even though you have demonstrated lack of understanding of the most basics and when your arguments have been repeatedly refuted.

If you have paid attention you would have seen that given you can't have full access to the peer reviewed paper I have linked, there was commentary from another well known site here (which I have linked before)

www.news-medical.net...

Commentary from Dr Thomas MD

The study shows that the immunological response elicited by the mRNA vaccine was very similar in those who developed post-vaccination myocarditis and others. In other words, myocarditis could not be associated with abnormal autoantibodies, viral infections other than SARS-CoV-2, or excessive production of antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine.

In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable.

The claim that I have taken this commentary from an anti-vaccination site has been refuted. This is a further blow to your credibility as you come to claim that whatever doesn't fit your narrative is anti-vaccination rhetoric. So the good MD has proven you wrong together with the publication that you cannot interpret.

By the way I do have access to the paper but I won't post something others don't have access to. So I posted the commentary by an medical doctor.

a reply to: chr0naut

Riddle me this and riddle me that.

All i ask my friend is some honest answers. I don't wish to burrow down some convoluted rabbit hole into exotic scientific debate. It's a never ending myriad of conjecture and speculation with no absolutes. In your opinion, are pharmaceutical companies trustworthy, and was our worldwide lockdown response justified? If not, then what possible reasons could be shadowing the agenda?

This is the essence of truth, that feeling you get deep inside your gut that you struggle to articulate, and are afraid to share.

Please simplify your answer, and speak from the heart.

Finally, don't underestimate your enemy. As humanity once again enters a technological age of Gods, have no doubt of the power that drives this planet and the meticulous nature of the plan for control. The intellects which shape and manipulate our reality are beyond imagination. Take the vaccine knowing you and every generation thereafter will be a slave of their science rather than nature.

Thanks.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: chr0naut
"In vaccinated patients, infection with the virus was not likely to be a cause or contributing factor for myocarditis since anti-Nucleoprotein IgG was not found in these patients.

In contrast to controls, the finding of high levels of unbound full-length spike protein in myocarditis patients may point to the mechanism by which this condition arises. Similarly, MIS-C patients had circulating SARS-CoV-2 antigens.

The spike protein appears to evade immune antibodies found at normal levels in these patients, with adequate functional and neutralization capacity. The spike may damage the cardiac pericytes or endothelium, perhaps by reducing the expression of the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), reducing nitric oxide production in the endothelium, or activating inflammation via integrins, causing the endothelium to become abnormally permeable."

The vast majority of cases of myocarditis post vaccination are due to the free spike protein i.e due to the mRNA vaccines. That is true for all other related heart issues post vaccination. This study proves in a few words that the usual suspect is most likely responsible for any problems created post vaccination.

So, in other words, it was a really really bad idea to isolate and use the one single aspect of the virus - the spike protein - you know, the one that causes so much damage to human organs and tissues - and just inject gobs and gobs of that into the body.

Got it.