Site found in Mexico cartel drug cave pushes American habitation back to 30,000 years.

originally posted by: TonyS


"New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago"

You can find links all day long and it doesn't make them true. Once again... The only way to come is through AK if we are talking over 5000+ much less 30,000 or 50,000 years ago. It was like a 5000 year window of 10,000 to 15,000 years ago between the great ice age and rising seas where the ice melted enough to allow humans to travel, but the seas did not rise high enough yet to close it off to any kind of foot travel.

a reply to: TonyS

Couldn't the charcoal be from a natural fire caused by lightning?

Humans have been around for 250,000 years, much of our history has been erased by the earth, cataclysms etc

Id be very surprised if anything survived under those ice caps some 2 miles thick crushing everything, followed by massive floods as the caps completely melted

Clovis first however has massively set back archaeology in the Americas

a reply to: TritonTaranis

I just read that homos have been able to control fire for an estimated 1.5 to 2 million years.

That predates us sapiens by quite a bit, fascinating to consider. Hairy ape men starting fires intelligently for the sake of warmth.

They had free will to make fires so I wonder if they had souls or spirits like modern humans do. Was God around back then? 🤔

Claims for the earliest definitive evidence of control of fire by a member of Homo range from 1.7 to 2.0 million years ago (Mya). Evidence for the "microscopic traces of wood ash" as controlled use of fire by Homo erectus, beginning roughly 1 million years ago, has wide scholarly support.en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
Humans have been around for 250,000 years, much of our history has been erased by the earth, cataclysms etc

Id be very surprised if anything survived under those ice caps some 2 miles thick crushing everything, followed by massive floods as the caps completely melted

Clovis first however has massively set back archaeology in the Americas

Even 100,000 years ago, humans were not all that human as we think today and that was when they just started to migrate out of Africa. That migration was mostly south as they made it through India then southern China on to Australia about 70,000 years ago. They made it to Siberia region about 50,000 years ago, but the ice age was a real bitch for people who used stone still.

originally posted by: ColoradoTemplar

You could always fish for food while on your way no need to carry food just water.

Not a lot of fish in deep waters though

originally posted by: TheBoomersRBusted
a reply to: Xtrozero The theorized migration was from from Siberia/Berengia, down the Pacific coast. Lots of seafood and wildlife to eat. The oceans rose several hundred feet 10-8000BC or so so, drowning remains of coastal settlements. Also, with such a very wet climate, not much will remain from a wood and bone technology.

I agree, but if you go back farther than 15,000 years there wasn't much of anything but ice. That is why the melting of 15,000 years ago opened up the ability to travel along the sea coast eating shell fish, fish and land animals not there before with the massive ice sheets etc.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats along the Pacific Coast .

From where? That is like the most desolate body of water in the world, nothing between Hawaii and the west coast, and humans didn't make it to Hawaii until 1500 or so years ago.

Arrrgggh the where is obviously undetermined the rest of your post is conjecture.

You can change the way you walk and look but it’s still a mirage of a falsehood.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ColoradoTemplar

You could always fish for food while on your way no need to carry food just water.

Not a lot of fish in deep waters though

Soooo true. Fish never go out in the open ocean. Ever.

Is there evidence in the OP that the findings were left by homo sapien sapien? No? Could have been anyone then, from anywhere, the fact remains that they were there then. Everything else is undetermined, including geographical features, modes of transportation and the state of the climate.

Zombies indeed.

originally posted by: Dalamax

Arrrgggh the where is obviously undetermined the rest of your post is conjecture.

You can change the way you walk and look but it’s still a mirage of a falsehood.

It is like 2000 miles between Hawaii and CA, also with Easter island and SA. Humans on those islands are relatively newer as in 1500 years or less, so if someone is talking 30,000 or 50,000 or even 20,000 I need to ask where they come from since it wouldn't be by the land bridge or boat.

originally posted by: Dalamax


Is there evidence in the OP that the findings were left by homo sapien sapien? No? Could have been anyone then, from anywhere, the fact remains that they were there then. Everything else is undetermined, including geographical features, modes of transportation and the state of the climate.

Zombies indeed.

One thing people do not really think about is the migration across the Bering Strait was over a 5000 year period. We are not talking one or two boats like the Vikings may have done with a failed site here and there prior to 1492. We are saying that people were able to migrate for 1000s of years, so one site in Mexico of 30,000 years ago is rather dubious. They said they found tools too, so what are they as we can date pretty damn good on the types of tools found. That is mainly how we know 3 waves came out of Africa as they all used different style of tools.

I find it funny when people assume that nobody before the polenysians could have possibly sailed or rowed across the pacific before them.

Its 100% possible that someone did, its also 100% possible there was some distant ancestor that survived over here for thousands of years before dying out.

If this is the first report on it then more data should follow and anyone who claims to think critically will admit its possible and ill decide when more data arrives to review.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Dalamax

Arrrgggh the where is obviously undetermined the rest of your post is conjecture.

You can change the way you walk and look but it’s still a mirage of a falsehood.

It is like 2000 miles between Hawaii and CA, also with Easter island and SA. Humans on those islands are relatively newer as in 1500 years or less, so if someone is talking 30,000 or 50,000 or even 20,000 I need to ask where they come from since it wouldn't be by the land bridge or boat.

How can you say for sure?

I think It’s hilarious as well. Let’s make progress in a field of inquiry by making our observations conform to our expectations.

Plato became nomadic because his cave got too crowded.

Like Aarrrggh zero said and I paraphrase, ‘there was no way to the Americas before 1500 years ago’

Blithering boulderdash Batman!
a reply to: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats along the Pacific Coast .

From where? That is like the most desolate body of water in the world, nothing between Hawaii and the west coast, and humans didn't make it to Hawaii until 1500 or so years ago.

In Boats Following the Coastlines from Siberia to Alaska , then down along the California Coast . This has been Well Documented , I am Surprised you are Not Aware of It ........

originally posted by: Dalamax

How can you say for sure?

What part? Like tools human's used in the past, or open ocean for 2000 miles? Once again I'm asking where would they come from if someone suggests 30k or 50k? You would then go down some path of aliens...

Do people really think humans would be able to travel extreme north during the ice age? We are lucky the Ice Age didn't wipe us out, and going farther north does seem like a good idea...lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I don't believe it. People seem to always want to over hype. Mexico is really in the middle of nowhere, so seems weird to start there as the oldest. People were also in Americas over 10,000 years before Polynesia was established, so where did they come from when there was no ice yet to cross.

australia and that area to easter island to chile and peru. then north.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats Following the Coastlines from Siberia to Alaska , then down along the California Coast . This has been Well Documented , I am Surprised you are Not Aware of It ........

Not 30k years ago, and not 50k like some here are suggesting. I'm also going to suggest not during the middle of the ice age either as they started to see that type of travel 15k to 10k ago.

drug caves 30K yrs ago?

i'm not sure if i'm impressed or sad.







maybe they went on a polenisian sleighride all that time ago.

harpoon a migrating whale or something and get a tow.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats Following the Coastlines from Siberia to Alaska , then down along the California Coast . This has been Well Documented , I am Surprised you are Not Aware of It ........

Not 30k years ago, and not 50k like some here are suggesting. I'm also going to suggest not during the middle of the ioce age as he started to see that type of travel 15k to 10k ago.

toba volcano blew 70 K ya, maybe they had to move or die?