Site found in Mexico cartel drug cave pushes American habitation back to 30,000 years.

A cave controlled by a northern Mexican drug cartel has seemly contained evidence of American habitation from as far back as 30,000 years ago. The previous theory of the Clovis people as being the oldest known peoples (15,000 years ago) has finally given way.

The cave being in a heavily controlled Mexican drug cartel region has been hard to access. Nevertheless it was.

Professor Willerslev said: "For decades people have passionately debated when the first humans entered the Americas. Chiquihuite Cave will create a lot more debate as it is the first site that dates the arrival of people to the continent to around 30,000 years ago -- 15,000 years earlier than previously thought. These early visitors didn't occupy the cave continuously, we think people spent part of the year there using it as a winter or summer shelter, or as a base to hunt during migration. This could be the Americas oldest ever hotel."

Science daily

But the question always is…… Do people really care about their history or are we all just selfish ass*holes…?

How far back does our lost history truly go

Happy Saturday. Time for an espresso.

a reply to: TheAlleghenyGentleman

i'm thinking, not sure where i saw it, i'll have to see if i can find it, but the article said there is a place in Canada, U.S. border that remains and artifacts date back older than 15,000 years.

been a while, but it was basically about supporting the land bridge migration theory.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

DNA suggests the Polynesians.

I don't believe it. People seem to always want to over hype. Mexico is really in the middle of nowhere, so seems weird to start there as the oldest. People were also in Americas over 10,000 years before Polynesia was established, so where did they come from when there was no ice yet to cross.

a reply to: Xtrozero

In Boats along the Pacific Coast .

Very cool thanks for the info!!

a reply to: TheAlleghenyGentleman

Human DNA was not found which adds weight to the theory that the early people didn't stay for long in the cave. We think these early people would probably have come back for a few months a year to exploit reoccurring natural resources available to them and then move on. Probably when herds of large mammals would have been in the area and who had little experience with humans so they would have been easy prey. The location of Chiquihuite Cave definitely rewrites what has conventionally been taught in history and archaeology and shows that we need to rethink where we look for sites of the earliest people in Americas."

It's a long walk from Alaska to Mexico. It's a long walk from California to Mexico.

How do you preserve meat 30,000 years ago? Killing large animals provides a lot of food, but its a small group of people. You don't even have salt back then (or do you?) and temps are high. Sun dry it into rancid jerky? But there was no dentistry or tooth paste.

The Chiquihuite Cave site is very difficult to reach and would have been a good vantage point for the early people to defend themselves from as they could look out for miles over the valley without being seen.

Defend themselves from whom? Other tourists taking long walks?

The earliest human DNA from the Americas currently remains at 12,400 years ago, Dr Ardelean explained: "We have shown the previously long held date of human presence is not the oldest date for populating the Americas, it is the explosion date of populating the Americas."

a reply to: TheAlleghenyGentleman

Cool find. Bummer there’s no pics. Or am I missing something?

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats along the Pacific Coast .

From where? That is like the most desolate body of water in the world, nothing between Hawaii and the west coast, and humans didn't make it to Hawaii until 1500 or so years ago.

Interesting find. I've always believed that there have been many civilizations on Earth that are dated far back than we've been taught and the Earth goes through cycles. So much lost knowledge and much that is hidden from us, I enjoy when findings like this come out and hopefully it piques others curiosity to keep searching for the truth.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit


In Boats along the Pacific Coast .

From where? That is like the most desolate body of water in the world, nothing between Hawaii and the west coast, and humans didn't make it to Hawaii until 1500 or so years ago.

The Polynesians colonizing the deep pacific in flimsy canoes were a crazy bunch. Can you even imagine? Forget Hawaii, even places like Tonga.

I shouldn't call them flimsy, these were like the super canoes of the day, but nothing like european wooden ships. Thin and long, in the deep ocean with no land for days, weeks. Not much room to store things or move, not sure if you could even walk around on them.

Gazing across the sea for days on end Polynesian navigators often didn’t look for land, which was hundreds of miles away in any direction. Instead, they watched the stars, clouds, birds, waves and other features of the environment from their open canoes, using them to navigate from one unseen island to the next, repeatedly finding green specks of land in a blue sea that covers one-third of the planet. Eventually these great explorers populated the habitable islands of the vast Pacific and left future generations to wonder exactly how it happened.

You don't even know if land is out there, and we're talking huge distances of open ocean. How could you have enough supplies not to starve to death, die of thirst? It's insane to think about. Slightly off topic as taking canoes along a coastline is nothing compared to this. www.smithsonianmag.com...

a reply to: Katatonik

I've always believed that there have been many civilizations on Earth that are dated far back than we've been taught and the Earth goes through cycles.

Yu would most likely enjoy reading James Churchward's series on Mu, and the PDF of Chan Thomas book 'The Adam and Eve Story: the Cataclysm'. They both go farther back in history than the stories of Atlantis.

a reply to: Thrumbo

You can smoke meat and preserve it.

a reply to: ColoradoTemplar

Oh yeah, I forgot about that lol

a reply to: Thrumbo

You could always fish for food while on your way no need to carry food just water.

a reply to: nugget1

Thanks, I'll give them a look!

a reply to: Xtrozero The theorized migration was from from Siberia/Berengia, down the Pacific coast. Lots of seafood and wildlife to eat. The oceans rose several hundred feet 10-8000BC or so so, drowning remains of coastal settlements. Also, with such a very wet climate, not much will remain from a wood and bone technology.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I don't believe it. People seem to always want to over hype. Mexico is really in the middle of nowhere, so seems weird to start there as the oldest. People were also in Americas over 10,000 years before Polynesia was established, so where did they come from when there was no ice yet to cross.

www.sciencedaily.com...

"New Evidence Puts Man In North America 50,000 Years Ago"

Then on the last day of the last week of digging, Goodyear's team uncovered a black stain in the soil where artifacts lay, providing him the charcoal needed for radiocarbon dating. Dr. Tom Stafford of Stafford Laboratories in Boulder, Colo., came to Topper and collected charcoal samples for dating.

"Three radiocarbon dates were obtained from deep in the terrace at Topper with two dates of 50,300 and 51,700 on burnt plant remains. One modern date related to an intrusion," Stafford says. "The two 50,000 dates indicate that they are at least 50,300 years. The absolute age is not known."

The revelation of an even older date for Topper is expected to heighten speculation about when man got to the Western Hemisphere and add to the debate over other pre-Clovis sites in the Eastern United States such as Meadowcroft Rockshelter, Pa., and Cactus Hill, Va.ay 2004 — Using backhoe and hand excavations, Goodyear and his team dig deeper, down into the Pleistocene terrace, some 4 meters below the ground surface. Artifacts, similar to pre-Clovis forms excavated in previous years, recovered deep in the terrace. A black stain in the soil provides charcoal for radio carbon dating.

November 2004 — Radiocarbon dating report indicates that artifacts excavated from Pleistocene terrace in May were recovered from soil that dates some 50,000 years. The dates imply an even earlier arrival for humans in this hemisphere than previously believed, well before the last ice age.

originally posted by: Thrumbo

The Polynesians colonizing the deep pacific in flimsy canoes were a crazy bunch. Can you even imagine? Forget Hawaii, even places like Tonga.
/

I agree like 1500 years ago, not 30,000. The body of water between Hawaii and CA is the most desolate body of water in the world, and that is why they never made it past there. Both Easter island and Hawaii are like 2000 miles of open waters with zero land to get to the Americas.

a reply to: ColoradoTemplar

Fishing for food in the deep pacific?

Little fish for people to eat swim near the surface way out there?

You'd have to eat it raw I guess.