Was there a Pre-Adamic race?

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Xtrozero

but if all humans disappeared tomorrow there would still be signs we were here a billion years later.

You're stating this as a fact amigo?

Sure

a reply to: Xtrozero

Cmon now X you can't see in to future can you?

Cause if you can we could make a lot of money pal.

originally posted by: Randyvine2

Cmon now X you can't see in to future can you?

Cause if you can we could make a lot of money pal.

I don't need to look in the future, just the past. We have 3.5 billion yearold fossils as example, so we do not need to look in the future. Snowball earth was about 650 million years ago and that kind of reset life on earth. Going back farther and earth was a lot different in what life was like here, so a billion years ago advance life was algae, so how far back do you want to go? I would say we need to start well after 650 million years ago.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't need to look in the future, just the past. We have 3.5 billion yearold fossils as example, so we do not need to look in the future. Snowball earth was about 650 million years ago and that kind of reset life on earth. Going back farther and earth was a lot different in what life was like here, so a billion years ago advance life was algae, so how far back do you want to go? I would say we need to start well after 650 million years ago.

It just never ceases to amaze me how even the most level headed
intelligent people such as yourself. Can be bulldozed by a sh1t wagon
with such numbers as those on board there in the above. How can
you not be cynical of any human being throwing those kind of numbers
around X? There shouldn't be anyone on the planet. Nobody who has
ever had a pulse, should be able to convince you. That they know what
was going on here on planet earth a billion years ago. Or 650 million
years ago. Because once those numbers get passed a certain elevation.

You might as well say 40 billion gazillion light years ago because it's all
the same. Impossible for humans to know. Because humans aren't immortal.
They should be reluctant to use those numbers, even if they had eyewitness
testimony. Because a smart person isn't gonna believe anyone who thinks
they know, what the hell was going on anywhere, a billion years ago.

But to have the audacity to espouse numbers like that as if they know?
Ha ha I'm sorry to ridicule but it sounds like someone some where had
a God complex. Likely a whole group of people. And that isn't to say I
know better or different, I just know bullsh1t when I hear it. No one
can tell me they have the first clue about a billion years. Not buy'n it!

3.5 billion years ago GTFOH!

originally posted by: Randyvine2

It just never ceases to amaze me how even the most level headed
intelligent people such as yourself. Can be bulldozed by a sh1t wagon
with such numbers as those on board there in the above. How can
you not be cynical of any human being throwing those kind of numbers
around X? There shouldn't be anyone on the planet. Nobody who has
ever had a pulse, should be able to convince you. That they know what
was going on here on planet earth a billion years ago. Or 650 million
years ago. Because once those numbers get passed a certain elevation.

We know a lot from testing and observations in our rocks. The OP is not talking about life in general, they are asking was there civilizations here a long time ago, and that would mean very advance life would you not say, and a totally different question asked? We can see how life evolved on earth, and we can see how it was knocked back to simple organisms with snow ball earth.

If we are suggesting God did it all then OK they could do whatever whenever, so not something I would debate, but if we are talking evolution that is a different story. Evolution on earth was a very slow process fort billions of years and then we had a couple of explosions. We also need to understand that Humans today were not around a million years ago and our ancestors were a lot different, go back 2 million and we are closer to apes than anything human.

So what we are talking about is a civilization that wasn't human in anyway like smart dinosaurs as even mammals were a much later evolution advance.

But to have the audacity to espouse numbers like that as if they know?
Ha ha I'm sorry to ridicule but it sounds like someone some where had
a God complex. Likely a whole group of people. And that isn't to say I
know better or different, I just know bullsh1t when I hear it. No can
tell me they have the first clue about a billion years. Not buy'n it!

Its all just science in we know when O2 was created by plant life, we can see the stages of life development on earth. It all was extremely simple life for a very long time unless God waved their magic wand and poofed it into existence, but why would he do that when he has all the time in the universe?

Now if you want to talk advance life billions of years ago it would need to be on a different planet that started a long time before earth got started.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I really don't have a problem with anything you wrote in the above.
If that is, we are using mans explanation of events on planet Earth.
As far as the debate goes between Creation and Evolution goes. I'm
over that debate and consider it over for the world. Stalemate and
it should be accepted academically that there are two choices and
both should be taught. And neither one embraced or favored.

That way a student can make a choice and follow one. Or the
student can study both before making a conclusion. With only two
stories that are certainly not compatible but are for the most part
what centers people in their lives. I think this is what should be.

The choice really comes down to this despite what people believe
or do not believe. A person either believes God or man. No one
should be indoctrinated by either one. There is a choice to make
for everyone. It isn't right that either one should preach against
the other. Clearly they both fathom very well. All that said.

It's hard for me to see evolution happening even once. Considering
the stupendous amount of levels of astronomical tables of odds that
have to occur over impossible measures of time.

Doesn't evolution ask that we believe it must have happened more than
once? At least two times. If the Dino's and man didn't live together? Surely
that's two different evolutionary occasions? That would make it twice as
hard to believe.

a reply to: Randyvine2

Where is the evidence for Genesis? Scientific evidence for abiogenesis, speciation and evolution grows continuously.

Religion should not be taught in schools as a serious alternative to the sciences. At best, it should be a hobby taken up outside of school.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: Randyvine2

Where is the evidence for Genesis? Scientific evidence for abiogenesis, speciation and evolution grows continuously.

Religion should not be taught in schools as a serious alternative to the sciences. At best, it should be a hobby taken up outside of school.

Nah we should trust what corroborating histories from various cultures through the world tell us, rather than relying on speculative techniques that can generate faulty data. Despite the differences in perspective and names, various cultures have the same story for humanity's beginning. This is far more compelling than radiometric dating on rock that purposefully skews the calibration of the data to fit the narrative of evolution.

a reply to: TerraLiga


Science isn't even allowed to study phenomena with out bumping into
God. Scientists identify a code in our DNA and (bump) there's God. As they
slowly learn and decipher a language of sorts, that conveys information
used by the building blocks of life. I think science is proving Genesis
quite nicely on it's own. The more it tinkers and toys with Gods Creation
it stands to reason they're gonna keep bumping into him. What is there
for me to prove. I say keep up the good work.

Yall do'in fine!

Religion should not be taught in schools as a serious alternative to the sciences. At best, it should be a hobby taken up outside of school.

Nobody mentioned religion but you. And if you don't think Natural
Emergence requires even more faith than Creation? Then I doubt
you are without bias. Evolution is a belief and Creation is a belief.

originally posted by: Randyvine2

Nobody mentioned religion but you. And if you don't think Natural
Emergence requires even more faith than Creation? Then I doubt
you are without bias. Evolution is a belief and Creation is a belief.

Exactly. Combine all the bests neurologists with unlimited lab resources and they still could not figure out how to make a brain from scratch. Now imagine the further absurdity of such a feat occurring by random chance. Over 800,000 miles of neural circuitry is organized and compacted into our skull to allow all the wonderful faculties of existence we get to enjoy. It would require a multitude of miracles to come to be by random chance.

a reply to: cooperton

Exactly. Combine all the bests neurologists with unlimited lab resources and they still could not figure out how to make a brain from scratch. Now imagine the further absurdity of such a feat occurring by random chance. Over 800,000 miles of neural circuitry is organized and compacted into our skull to allow all the wonderful faculties of existence we get to enjoy. It would require a multitude of miracles to come to be by random chance.

And that is not a belief at all. That is scientific fact.

originally posted by: Randyvine2

I really don't have a problem with anything you wrote in the above.
If that is, we are using mans explanation of events on planet Earth.
As far as the debate goes between Creation and Evolution goes. I'm
over that debate and consider it over for the world. Stalemate and
it should be accepted academically that there are two choices and
both should be taught. And neither one embraced or favored.

Let me throw in some food for thought. I see Creation and Evolution as two totally different debates as they are not really even in the same category. Let me explain...

Creation is a "WHY" life is here, "WHY" humans were created type questions which asks nothing about the how.
Evolution is a "HOW" life got here, "HOW" humans were created question which asks nothing about the why.

As example I could say God or intelligent design created the universe 14.7 billion years ago knowing that humans would be in that process with evolution being his "HOW" he did it all.

I could also say that the universe is all random events based on laws and rules that are a fundamental process of our universe and we just happened as trillions of other life forms have happened.

In both cases evolution is the how...

Now where the mistake takes place is people suggest that God waved his magic wand ignoring all these laws and rules he made and just popped us into existence. I personally find that NOT very logical. The other scenario is God made everything 6000 years ago and it just seems to be old because that is just what God does, and I find that even less logical.

That way a student can make a choice and follow one. Or the
student can study both before making a conclusion. With only two
stories that are certainly not compatible but are for the most part
what centers people in their lives. I think this is what should be.

Sure, I have zero issues with that. I also have zero issues with people believing the universe was created by God though my personal thoughts are that we didn't need God to happen and it kinds of sets up the old chicken or egg scenario of what came first.

The choice really comes down to this despite what people believe
or do not believe. A person either believes God or man. No one
should be indoctrinated by either one. There is a choice to make
for everyone. It isn't right that either one should preach against
the other. Clearly they both fathom very well. All that said.

I do not debate faith because the absence of proof is the foundation of faith. It just isn't a good topic to debate since neither side can prove anything. I have a saying that I created and I'll share it with you.

The more proof one looks for in God the less faith they have.... You can TM me on that

It's hard for me to see evolution happening even once. Considering
the stupendous amount of levels of astronomical tables of odds that
have to occur over impossible measures of time.

Well lets look at two different ideas.

If intelligent design made everything then it was all preplanned even if humans are related to apes.

The other way of your "stupendous amount of levels of astronomical tables of odds" is actually not really true because you are looking from the past forward and then trying to suggest what would be the odds 4 billion years ago that humans would be one of the lifeforms on earth and I agree that number is so large we basically called it infinite, but that is incorrect.

The correct way to look at it is humans have been one of trillions of lifeforms created with no end result planned in the beginning, so there is no odds as a part of it all. We just happened to be the smartest so far, so some forms of life would be the smartest, largest, fastest etc etc. Even in randomness, some lifeform will have the largest brain, right?

Doesn't evolution ask that we believe it must have happened more than
once? At least two times. If the Dino's and man didn't live together? Surely
that's two different evolutionary occasions? That would make it twice as
hard to believe.

Life happens when conditions are right all throughout the universe as it is a fundamental process of our universe. Give life time and it will evolved and earth is really good. We have a big moon that keeps much of our environment within set limits that life likes. We have these big vacuums called Jupiter and Saturn that allows life to slowly advance for 70 million years or so until we get hit with a big asteroid once again, just think what life would be like if we got hit every 1 million years, it would be extreme basic. Earth is in that great zone, look at mars or Venus as just outside. We have a liquid core to prevents our atmosphere from evaporating like Mars did. All this keeps a very stable environment to let evolution do its thing that takes millions of years to do that.

Think of it this way... Life is all over BUT species come and go in the wink of the eye. Humans were not here 500k years ago and 500k or even less we will not be here in the future, but other species will be. Humans are literally a wink of the universe eye and we are gone or we will be something else that isn't human anymore.

a reply to: Xtrozero

"stupendous amount of levels of astronomical tables of odds"

I had to read that back to myself three times before I said to self.

"Why do I keep reading that"? it's good

I hope it didn't give to much pain.

Fair enough X

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: Xtrozero

"stupendous amount of levels of astronomical tables of odds"

I had to read that back to myself three times before I said to self.

"Why do I keep reading that"? it's good

I hope it didn't give to much pain.

No... we call it infinite, but I did chuckle at it and I did copy and paste it with no desire to manually type it out...lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

Creationist do exactly what you describe; look at what is here now and say it's impossible without intervention. "What about they eye?" they say, "How could a brain just appear?" they squark. It's because an indoctrinated cult line repeated over and over, combined with limited faculties have managed to exclude genuine, open inquisition. With only one source of information available to them, they continually twist and fabricate the words of the OT to suit accepted fact and new data. They are frauds and they know it.

I want to make clear that I don't dismiss the OT as an incredibly valuable piece of human history - it is that for sure.

a reply to: TerraLiga

Well you did a great job of bouncing off a number of issues you
site as indoctrination on the part of a "cult". With absolutely no
consideration to your own indoctrination. And there is no argument
in your case and everyone who believes what you what you believe.
Because it was all taught to you by man. So much for hypocrisy.

I want to make clear that I don't dismiss the OT as an incredibly valuable piece of human history - it is that for sure.

But this was a nice to read fellow up rarely seen from most
who endeavor this argument from your dogma. so at least that.
Credit for recognizing a masterful work of ancient literature.
Not even remotely comparable to the writings of uneducated
sheep herders. Suffice all that to say, partner, you don't even
know the half of what's going with that book. And you'll just
have to trust me on this. That book is a miracle in and of itself.

Take it from someone who isn't a Bible thumping Holy roller
fraud pal. You can only know what I mean by getting to know it
intimately. If I didn't have good reason for saying that. There's
no way in hell I'd waste my time writing it. But good on you
for not being a Bible burning fanatic not unlike the mercenaries
we seen in Iraq.

Destroying ancient sites that were preserved for thousands of years.
Mans history destroyed by evil men for their own purpose. And that
purpose is easily shown to be about every thing you were indoctrinated
not to believe. They destroyed Ur because it testifies to the accuracy
of Gods word. And they cut people off from going to sites that the Bible
says God destroyed.

Tanis for one is hardly talked about and several other sites in
Egypt people aren't even allowed to visit. And there can be only
reason in the eyes of those with knowledge of such things. Knowledge
of Gods word is evident of his wrath even today. You just accept
the fact that a great deal of history is hidden away and lied about.

But people are waking up to what little is on display of the truth
they hide. Wicked people despise that and it messes up the world
they have created for themselves. A cruel world that experiments
and tortures real human beings who aren't like them at all. Because
they have empathy and they don't crave power. Empathy the one
virtue that makes a man a human being. Without it he is just a
monster. No need to prove that either because the people running
this world prove it every day. And there is absolutely no other reason
for what they're doing. They know God exists because they have a
whole history of being at war with him.

And when the Bible mentions "The wicked" it is of them God
is referring to.

Further more that's why the Bible exists and they can't touch
it. And if they could they would have destroyed it long ago.
But as sooner or later you will come to know it's all part of
the deal they made long ago. Part of the "Ancient Promise".

The Devils bargain

They were granted this time this age and the ages past. To
build a world without the Creator. As long as they let his word
be a part of it. So far his confidence in his word has served
him well in my view.

All the while and thru all these ages they have been the
misery and suffering of the rest of us. surely even a child can
see that clearly. And so even with everything they have done to
wipe God from the knowledge of men. The Bible is all that needs to
remain for men to hear their Fathers word and know it. It's a beautiful
tapestry that connects everything and reveals Jesus Christ is the proof
for Genesis.

However it may sound to you. All anyone has to do is watch what's
happening to the world they have us living in. Look if you dare thru the
context of Gods word. And when you see and see it you shall. All the
questions you have that have no answers will disappear.



You will also see their time is almost up as they grow nervous and scurry about.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: Xtrozero

Creationist do exactly what you describe; look at what is here now and say it's impossible without intervention. "What about they eye?" they say, "How could a brain just appear?" they squark. It's because an indoctrinated cult line repeated over and over, combined with limited faculties have managed to exclude genuine, open inquisition.

It's genuine scrutiny, if evolution is as factual as you suppose it is, then it should be easy to answer. You should have scientific evidence to support it. Otherwise it is merely faith.

With only one source of information available to them, they continually twist and fabricate the words of the OT to suit accepted fact and new data. They are frauds and they know it.

Nah, when debating evolution I don't appeal to the Bible for authority, because obviously whoever I am debating ignores it. So I play in the court of the evolutionist and cite peer-reviewed papers or empirical facts that insinuate the impossibility of evolution.

So, how could 800,000 miles of neural pathways assemble themselves in such a way to allow the conscious experience exhibited in humans by random chance? That's enough neurons to wrap around the earth over 30 times. There's no plausible explanation. For this reason, since both intelligent and unintelligent design proponents rely on faith, we are compelled to conclude that it is far more likely that the human brain was made from a hyper-Intelligent source, rather than dumb luck.

I want to make clear that I don't dismiss the OT as an incredibly valuable piece of human history - it is that for sure.

If you are interested, there is a multitude of other cultures who agree on the history described in Genesis. Like randyvine said, this history is being destroyed as the days go on, but thankfully most of the information is still in archives

a reply to: Randyvine2

Thanks for the response, but real history must have alluded you. Christians themselves have also reduced religious sites to rubble - of Islam, Judaism, temples in Rome, Egypt and other cultures. Each religion despises the other (historically) and so if these are really the same religion under different guises then you are all intolerant of yourselves and your god. The is no real love or acceptance in religion.

a reply to: cooperton

You've just done it again. My post you responded to suggested your incredulity defence is all you have. And it is!

Let's use your analogy. Does a highly complex network of roads suddenly appear overnight? Of course they don't. They are built gradually over time, upgraded and superceded. To even suggest that a complex organism such as a modern human brain appeared suddenly is infantile. Dogmatic. It's creationist with a complete and blatant disregard for fact and biology.

You, Cooperton, are the biggest fraud of them all.

a reply to: TerraLiga

Thanks for the response, but real history must have alluded you. Christians themselves have also reduced religious sites to rubble - of Islam, Judaism, temples in Rome, Egypt and other cultures.

Cmon you say Christian I say Catholic and we both know the difference.
That argument has been done.

And this

The is no real love or acceptance in religion.

Just speaks only to ignorance. Look and see how happy these people are.
Even tho they know what's coming on everyone who believes in Jesus
Christ. In the face of the world that hates us this is how we fight back.
you want to tell someone these people are bad people. Tell it among
your peers and be encouraged by them.



Nothing you can do will take our eyes off of Christ. I see no other
who died 2000 yrs ago in almost total obscurity. Who today can make
people this happy. I'm sorry the world has caused you to be blind to
something so sweet. I can't help but feel bad foe you. You really are
missing out. That's the only reason you get my time. Because later I
won't have any regret.

Watch to the end or you're a monkey's butt and a scaredy cat.

Oh and you are quite welcome