Lack of respect for the US flag.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Randyvine2

Because the actual State of Insanity lives only in the heads of ATS conspiracy posters.

It would fly appropriately in the face of the liberal left I give you that.

originally posted by: Mantiss2021
a reply to: ancientlight

How do the Dutch, or any other European country's citizens, feel about their country's flag?

From what I've read, it's only in the US that people consider "a piece of cloth" to be an almost "holy", certainly revered, icon.

I feel the same about the Dutch flag

a reply to: ancientlight

To some people it means liberty.

To some people it represents oppression somewhere else, while they get the full benefits of liberty.

I guess watching your nation drop bombs and admit to staging coups in other places around the world while waving the flag turned some people against it.

My wife who is English grew up thinking that flying the union jack was bad taste because of what it represented, especially since she lived near the Welsh and Scottish borders for a bit.

My personal take is if you live in a nation and you are proud of it, then go ahead fly the flag and defend it, it's your right.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yeah, who needs sore lips.

When flags were flags. Then there is the American flag and quite a beauty it is. It's very pretty.

On August 21, 1959, President Eisenhower issued an Executive Order establishing the design of the 50-star flag. This flag was first officially raised over Fort McHenry National Historic Site on July 4, 1960.

That American flag?
There are probably some users on ATS that are older than that flag.

The 13 star flag would be a better symbol for freedom than the current design. Even the yellow don't step on snake flag has more of a freedom vibe than the 50 star design.

The current flag is a better symbol to display American military might and expansion.

Ironic, since it was Eisenhower who protested against the military industrial complex, in the same vein that they put Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill even though he was against the banking system.

Whether it be hoisting it up high above your home, wearing it as a thong to the beach or even burning it in protest, that all falls under the category of freedom. Also property rights.

"Hey buddy, my Daddy fought and died for that flag."

"Really? I bought mine, they sell them at Walmart for 20 bucks."

a reply to: ancientlight

I know you and I don't agree on much of anything, but I'm totally with you on this! As a 20 year retired Navy veteran, I just get sickened when I see anyone defacing our beloved flag. I know many veterans will say this: "While I don't agree with you, I will defend with my life your right to freedom of speech/expression". But I really struggle with this. In my humble opinion, people defacing the US Ensign are destroying something. I find that absolutely disgusting. I want to scream at people burning the flag and that kind of thing. Many have died defending what that flag represents. I think many don't actually know what the flag represents. Those like me who served in our armed forces know what it represents.

a reply to: ancientlight

The US flag stands for the USA.

The USA incarcerates more of its citizens, both per capita and in absolute numbers, than any other country in the world. And yet its crime rate is about the medium for a country. Think about that!

Also, at a time when most other countries had abolished slavery, the USA embraced it. The US Constitution was written to encompass slavery. The US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery. Think about that!

The US is still rife with ethnic division, there are still attitudes formed when slavery was legal, that are prevalent and causing ongoing actual issues right now. The US has not progressed beyond those ethnic issues. There were riots only last year about it. Think about that!

The USA has very poor the distribution of wealth. Probably the worst in the world. In other countries, billionaires don't get away with not paying tax, or paying very little, while the poor are heavily burdened and are often prosecuted for tax related issues. On any night in the US, more than half a million people are homeless. About 3.6% of Americans are unemployed. By US standards, 37.2 million are living below the poverty line. Think about that!

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

a reply to: ancientlight

and if the aliens land, under which flag will we present ourselves as a humanity?
blind nationalism has never led to anything good. in the end, it is just a flag.

originally posted by: loufo
a reply to: ancientlight

and if the aliens land, under which flag will we present ourselves as a humanity?
blind nationalism has never led to anything good. in the end, it is just a flag.

Obviously……

originally posted by: CloneFarm1000
On August 21, 1959, President Eisenhower issued an Executive Order establishing the design of the 50-star flag. This flag was first officially raised over Fort McHenry National Historic Site on July 4, 1960.

That American flag?
There are probably some users on ATS that are older than that flag.

The 13 star flag would be a better symbol for freedom than the current design. Even the yellow don't step on snake flag has more of a freedom vibe than the 50 star design.

The current flag is a better symbol to display American military might and expansion.

Ironic, since it was Eisenhower who protested against the military industrial complex, in the same vein that they put Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill even though he was against the banking system.

Whether it be hoisting it up high above your home, wearing it as a thong to the beach or even burning it in protest, that all falls under the category of freedom. Also property rights.

"Hey buddy, my Daddy fought and died for that flag."

"Really? I bought mine, they sell them at Walmart for 20 bucks."

There are probably a LOT of ATS users pre 1959! lol
We were raised in a different time, where our parents and grandparents fought horrible wars for freedom from tyranny. As kids, we said the Pledge every Monday morning in class- facing the flag that was in each room.
We learned what the sentiment was behind the flag, both in school and at home. The way our vets revered Old Glory made even the youngest among us sense a deeply, almost spiritual/sacred meaning.

As wars began to be seen more as a way to change regimes and exploit other country's resources, attitudes changed. People began to see the flag through eyes of shame, which is sad. The symbol and it's meaning hasn't changed; the people behind it have. I blame politics and politicians every time I see a flag being disrespected.

The Swastika was a religious symbol for many cultures, including Native Americans for hundreds of years- until Nazi's turn it into something negative. Government has played a big part in doing that to the US flag.

I think the Gadsden flag is held in higher regard now that the red, white and blue. It hasn't lost it's meaning for me, though; it represents this beautiful land I was born in, and the good life I've been able to live. What it doesn't mean to me is politics, politicians, political corruption, or anything government related. They can only take my reverence for my country's flag from me if I let them, and I'm not going to do that.

They're really not that expensive. A fellow I met some time ago would sell them with a white stripe painted black with a marker to commemorate the American Indian culture and reckoned with a strong argument the flag should have a black stripe for such reasons. Understandable but a bit far fetched it seems. a reply to: CloneFarm1000

Scary now isn't it...

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ancientlight

The US flag stands for the USA.

The USA incarcerates more of its citizens, both per capita and in absolute numbers, than any other country in the world. And yet its crime rate is about the medium for a country. Think about that!

Also, at a time when most other countries had abolished slavery, the USA embraced it. The US Constitution was written to encompass slavery. The US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery. Think about that!

The US is still rife with ethnic division, there are still attitudes formed when slavery was legal, that are prevalent and causing ongoing actual issues right now. The US has not progressed beyond those ethnic issues. There were riots only last year about it. Think about that!

The USA has very poor the distribution of wealth. Probably the worst in the world. In other countries, billionaires don't get away with not paying tax, or paying very little, while the poor are heavily burdened and are often prosecuted for tax related issues. On any night in the US, more than half a million people are homeless. About 3.6% of Americans are unemployed. By US standards, 37.2 million are living below the poverty line. Think about that!

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

I don't agree that the US is still rife with ethnic division. No more than any other country at least. If anything, the US is a 'melting pot' of cultures. I do agree that billionaires should pay tax! It's insane that they get to evade paying a fair amount of tax. But, compared to NK and China the US is a free country.

originally posted by: loufo
a reply to: ancientlight

and if the aliens land, under which flag will we present ourselves as a humanity?
blind nationalism has never led to anything good. in the end, it is just a flag.

Does it matter to them? My guess not, as they're alien, different values etc. I hope they land soon, more than ready

originally posted by: ChiefD
a reply to: ancientlight

I know you and I don't agree on much of anything, but I'm totally with you on this! As a 20 year retired Navy veteran, I just get sickened when I see anyone defacing our beloved flag. I know many veterans will say this: "While I don't agree with you, I will defend with my life your right to freedom of speech/expression". But I really struggle with this. In my humble opinion, people defacing the US Ensign are destroying something. I find that absolutely disgusting. I want to scream at people burning the flag and that kind of thing. Many have died defending what that flag represents. I think many don't actually know what the flag represents. Those like me who served in our armed forces know what it represents.

Good to hear

Oh look a shiny colored piece of cloth... Quick let's attach all these absurde values to it and get all offended if somone treats it like the colored piece of cloth it is. The crown would be proud of what of the division once again achieved with that little parlor trick called law of the flag...

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman

originally posted by: loufo
a reply to: ancientlight

and if the aliens land, under which flag will we present ourselves as a humanity?
blind nationalism has never led to anything good. in the end, it is just a flag.

Obviously……

Love beavis & butthead still

originally posted by: Terpene
Oh look a shiny colored piece of cloth... Quick let's attach all these absurde values to it and get all offended if somone treats it like the colored piece of cloth it is. The crown would be proud of what of the division once again achieved with that little parlor trick called law of the flag...

True, in a way. But still , a flag belongs with national identity (not politics)

originally posted by: ancientlight

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ancientlight

The US flag stands for the USA.

The USA incarcerates more of its citizens, both per capita and in absolute numbers, than any other country in the world. And yet its crime rate is about the medium for a country. Think about that!

Also, at a time when most other countries had abolished slavery, the USA embraced it. The US Constitution was written to encompass slavery. The US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery. Think about that!

The US is still rife with ethnic division, there are still attitudes formed when slavery was legal, that are prevalent and causing ongoing actual issues right now. The US has not progressed beyond those ethnic issues. There were riots only last year about it. Think about that!

The USA has very poor the distribution of wealth. Probably the worst in the world. In other countries, billionaires don't get away with not paying tax, or paying very little, while the poor are heavily burdened and are often prosecuted for tax related issues. On any night in the US, more than half a million people are homeless. About 3.6% of Americans are unemployed. By US standards, 37.2 million are living below the poverty line. Think about that!

The USA does not stand for freedom. It is the least free country on the planet.

I don't agree that the US is still rife with ethnic division. No more than any other country at least. If anything, the US is a 'melting pot' of cultures. I do agree that billionaires should pay tax! It's insane that they get to evade paying a fair amount of tax. But, compared to NK and China the US is a free country.

Imagine a country where everyone is so indoctrinated that they keep repeating jingoistic catch-phrases about themselves, despite having a very poor record in regard to the things the catch-phrases purport.

For decades the media have reinforced the chants with such as superheroes 'fighting' for "truth, justice and the American way", but the American way is highly self-centered, acquisitive, militarily belligerent, disparaging of others, and corrupt if they can get away with it. If they get found out - it's all denial, hypocrisy and enforcement of privilege.

I'm not denying that North Korea, or China have issues with human rights abuses. But in measurable terms, the USA does not come out as a shining light in the world.