Ukrainian IADS taking out Russias missiles

a reply to: noscopebacon

russia isnt doing that great.

Ukraine is losing more territories.
They arent stopping yet.

This conflict can only end in diplomacy otherwise Europe wont be doing very well with the scant ions agaisnt Russia that they imposed on.

The sanctions are hurting Europe more than Russia.

a reply to: vNex92

clearly it is working. they seem to be SA-2's and maybe something newer judging by the color of the booster.

the Russians might hold certain places but they can never keep them.

and is Russia ready financially and morally to enter a 20 year war again like their own Afghanistan misadventure.

they cant weather the storm of sanctions and isolation.

Putin will come to the table and most of the territory will be returned.

imagine how much money the are losing not selling gas to the EU. Do you know what Russia's major export is?

a reply to: noscopebacon

You remind someone that had being watching to much of MSM.
And you believe MSM and what they are saying about Ukraine/Russian conflict.

a reply to: noscopebacon

Putin will come to the table and most of the territory will be returned.
Very unlikely the same way Americans never returned Kosovo to Serbia, despite the Americans helping the Albanians them like a air force assistance during that war.

Its very unlikely that those territories would be returned.

The US is also still occupying in Syria.

a reply to: noscopebacon

the Russians might hold certain places but they can never keep them

The Russians are in largely areas where the majority are Russian/Ukrainian speaking ethnic with Roots that dating backing to the old lands of Rus people and old Russian lands.

If you were hoping for a guerrilla warfare like that the US had seen in Iraq or Afghanistan.


The Russians already have experience in guerrilla warfare.



You know agrees and shares your same opinion? Hillary Clinton.

a reply to: noscopebacon

and is Russia ready financially and morally to enter a 20 year war again like their own Afghanistan misadventure.

You talking about a Russia when they were a soviet Union that was already collapsing and as for their own Afghanistan misadventure.


How well has that worked for us in the west? we couldn't hold Afghanistan for 20 years..

a reply to: noscopebacon







How has this policy being working out?

Libya is also on fire recently and no one is talking about the failing government.

a reply to: noscopebacon

If the Russians do decide to Leave the Eastern Ukrainian parts you know whats going to happen to those who are in the East and are with Russian speaking roots?

They would be attacked, their towns, cities attacked and they would treated as second class.


The MSM will never report from the other side.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: noscopebacon

if Russia is smart they will stop and hold where they are now and say they won.

and over time Russia will just allow it to go back to normal via UN negotiations

The areas that Russia say they want just happen to be where most of Ukraine's vast oil, gas, minerals are too... But it was all for the poor Russian minorities...lol

Oh, that’s what it was all about
You mean that area that Kiev was at civil war with for the past 8 years, killing Russian speaking Ukrainians, that seperate state who was given autonomy and then attacked, those Russian minorities who were being killed so Kieve could control their wealth

So, poor Russian speaking Ukrainians don’t matter, it’s all about allowing Kiev control of resources

You should go back and reread your statement. 8 years Russia stood out, nothing, nothing till Kiev talked joining NATO

a reply to: Raggedyman

If Russia leaves East and its areas, the killings wont be reported by Western MSM.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

Oh, that’s what it was all about
You mean that area that Kiev was at civil war with for the past 8 years, killing Russian speaking Ukrainians, that seperate state who was given autonomy and then attacked, those Russian minorities who were being killed so Kieve could control their wealth

So, poor Russian speaking Ukrainians don’t matter, it’s all about allowing Kiev control of resources

You should go back and reread your statement. 8 years Russia stood out, nothing, nothing till Kiev talked joining NATO

So, answer me one question. How did those poor minorities hold out for 8 years in some kind of genocide operation? I find it ironic to even call them minorities in they are ALL basically the same. Some want to be with Mother Russia and most want to have their own country that was their right to have.

There is NO separate state, get over it. Its not their wealth, its Ukraine as in one country. Well at least you didn't use the the most favorite word, Nazi, I'll at least give you a point for that.

a reply to: Xtrozero

right all living normal lives, and most pretty nice like in Crimea.

i see footage from there before russia and its beautiful, it still is and that is because they need it for the warm water base


if Russia is so advanced why cant they finish this war off, and whoever was talking about urban warfare... that HAS been going on for 8 years.


as far as me and HRC even a broken clock is right twice a day.

a reply to: vNex92

Russia can try and keep all the gas rich territories it wants it's never getting access to western energy markets again for any foreseeable future.

In the long run Nex that barely affects Europe especially considering the fact Europe has been actively diversifying it's energy supply... What's next special operation in Azerbaijan and Turkey? Again Europe is slowly moving away from fossil fuels and there's plenty of suppliers other than Russia anyways despite their meddling.

Russia needs to sell fuel it's that simple and the West will be no longer buying. They can't diversify and build 1000's of km of pipes to the east to sell without Western technology and investment either.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Pfft.

Those independent states where they hand out Russian passports? Definitely not a process that's ever been practiced elsewhere now is it?

It's Ukrainian land, therefore Ukrainian resources. Go find out if they've been exploited and why. Personally I don't think the Russian state gives a # about Russians never mind Russian speaking Ukrainians.

This is about resources and the infrastructure to export said resources, always was. Joining NATO? Yeah just like Georgia! Lmao that's the ticket. Russia's a #ing gas station man.

Only volunteer forces fought the Russian insurgency up until February, a genuine act of war changed things.

originally posted by: noscopebacon
a reply to: Xtrozero

right all living normal lives, and most pretty nice like in Crimea.

i see footage from there before russia and its beautiful, it still is and that is because they need it for the warm water base


if Russia is so advanced why cant they finish this war off, and whoever was talking about urban warfare... that HAS been going on for 8 years.


as far as me and HRC even a broken clock is right twice a day.

That is a good point in why is the war still going on? Putin thought he would roll into Kiev after 2 weeks to women throwing flowers to the saviors. That is how Russia thinks, but we have seen a country that isn't Russia and wants to be their own. Putin has been funding the war in the East for 8 years using marcs that about as close to Nazis as one can get. No one here supporting Russia talks about them, and they been Putin's private army for decades, not just in Ukraine.

When we talk about Crimea what about the 40% that live there that are Ukraine and not wanting to be Russian? I guess they just need to suck it up I guess, right? I have seen some videos where life is not that good for them. Russia is just taking land as they see fit making up a 1/2 dozen excuses as to why, but in the end its them doing all the bad that we see.

originally posted by: RAY1990
Personally I don't think the Russian state gives a # about Russians never mind Russian speaking Ukrainians.

You are right. Russia has never given a crap about their own people much less Russian speaking Ukrainians. Humans to Russia are just a resource to be used.

a reply to: Xtrozero

This has the feel of a 30 year delayed reaction to losing the Cold War.

The Russian state under Putin has been stewing with resentment for decades that "their thing" was a colossal failure back then. A regular nuclear-armed Weimar Republic mentality.

So now, 30 years after Ukraine said bye-bye to the USSR, Putin is taking out his rage on them for looking like they might have a chance of doing and looking better than Putin's Russia.

Lot of background color here, and it isn't attractive to look at.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: Xtrozero

This has the feel of a 30 year delayed reaction to losing the Cold War.

The Russian state under Putin has been stewing with resentment for decades that "their thing" was a colossal failure back then. A regular nuclear-armed Weimar Republic mentality.

So now, 30 years after Ukraine said bye-bye to the USSR, Putin is taking out his rage on them for looking like they might have a chance of doing and looking better than Putin's Russia.

Lot of background color here, and it isn't attractive to look at.

Cheers

I agree, but it goes deeper than that.

Putin said that the greatest disaster in the last 100 years was not WWII, but the breakup of the USSR, and Ukraine was the cherry on the top of a bunch of satellite countries back then. It has a population of 44 million so that is an increase of 25% to Russia's work force and military capabilities. Kiev was once the Russian capital, so long history there. It has massive resources and is a direct path to EU for energy with ports in the Black Sea and land connected to Crimea.

All this would be a huge gain for Russia to get those pesky Ukrainians out of the way, and he is willing to do all that even if it means 100,000s die, millions have life long disabilities, full destruction of the country and 40 million imprisoned under their rule happens in the process.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Can you give sources please? I've always wanted to privately own weapons of mass destruction.

a reply to: watchitburn

Riiiiiight.... shouldn't russia have trampled Ukraine though?