Supreme Court’s Roe ruling would trample the religious freedom of every Jewish American

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: Xcalibur254

Show me one pro life person that is against aborting a baby that is endangering the life of the mother.

Actually, I would guarantee you that there are women out there who, if they were in such a position, would insist (or at leats try to) that they - the Doctors - do everything possible to save the baby even if it is at the cost of her own life.

A mother's (and fathers - and I speak from that perspective with personal knowledge) protective instincts can (obviously not always though) know no bounds.

I know - because we've had this very discussion - that my wife and I both would give our lives if it would save one of our children - or even if it only gave them a better chance than not.

That said, I wouldn't protest such a law t hat gave the mother the choice under such circumstances. But not rape - the rape is no longer a danger to the mothers life, and the fact that she was raped isn't the baby's fault.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
A newspaper article is not a link to the information needed.

The text of the proposed Louisiana law is here.

Section 1. This Act is known and may be cited as the "Abolition of Abortion in
9 Louisiana Act of 2022".
10 Section 2. Acknowledging the sanctity of innocent human life, created in the image
11 of God, which should be equally protected from fertilization to natural death, the legislature
12 hereby declares that the purpose of this Act is to:
13 (1) Fully recognize the human personhood of an unborn child at all stages of
14 development prior to birth from the moment of fertilization.
15 (2) Ensure the right to life and equal protection of the laws to all unborn children
16 from the moment of fertilization by protecting them by the same laws protecting other
17 human beings.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I thought religious matters were something the Federal government was supposed to stay out of. That just makes this decision make more sense. It's not banning abortion, but allowing the states to decide. And if folks like you think the state government should be involved in religious decisions, maybe they will force you to go to church so you can thank a God you don't believe in for allowing Jewish folks to kill babies.

Separation of Church and State, what's that all about?

What happens if a resident of a state that bans abortion travels to another state where abortion is legal…has an abortion….and then returns home?

Pot is legal is Colorado, pot is not legal in Texas. You will get arrested and put into jail for having less than 2oz of pot in Texas (even if you purchased it in Colorado).


If you are a legal resident of Louisiana and you are 22 weeks pregnant and you travel to California for an abortion…will you be arrested as soon as you return home to Louisiana? I’m envisioning a busy-body neighbor, family member or maybe the baby’s father picking up the phone and calling the police. Police pick up the woman and place her under arrest and jail her for violating the Louisiana state abortion law. Is there a statue of limitations on this? How long would the woman need to wait prior to returning to her home state without fear of prosecution? 2 years? 10 years?



a reply to: Xcalibur254

originally posted by: Buvvy
What happens if a resident of a state that bans abortion travels to another state where abortion is legal…has an abortion….and then returns home?

There are proposals being discussed that would make the mother a murderer and anyone who assisted an accomplice to murder.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: Xcalibur254

Can you provide any links to proposed state laws that would prohibit abortion if the mothers life is medically in danger. Not openions but actual proposed laws.

Interesting question, especially so close on the heels of those who asked the same question about Critical Race Theory and LGBTQ+ sexual instruction in schools. Those who opposed the state efforts to regulate curriculums regularly asked "can you provide one example of where this is actually taking place?" The general consensus among those who supported regulating curriculums considered it wise and prudent to consider and account for the possibility and take proactive and pre-emptive action.

Seems to me that the same applies here.

To your greater point, literally every pregnancy carries life-threatening risks to the mother, and especially in the USA, with Black women suffering the greatest number of deaths, and therefore the highest risk.

Maternal Mortality and Maternity Care in the United States Compared to 10 Other Developed Countries

Therefore, any and all abortions could be said to be protecting the mother's life.

But at some point, when a baby is viable and can survive outside the mother's womb, abortions can and shoud be replaced with induced childbirth. No more born alive babies killed after the fact. No more inflicting unimaginable pain and suffering on a late-term unborn child.

Conflicting rights must be respected and balanced, our laws must be thoughtful and comprehensive, and our sense of humanity kept a priority.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

My whole take on freedom of religion is that people should be able to practice their religion in any way they want, so long as they do no harm to other people with their practice. I guess what needs to be worked out is the legal definition of when the fetus actually becomes a person. I see that as a job for Congress.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Buvvy
What happens if a resident of a state that bans abortion travels to another state where abortion is legal…has an abortion….and then returns home?

There are proposals being discussed that would make the mother a murderer and anyone who assisted an accomplice to murder.

when they become law in 2000 and never, let me know.

originally posted by: network dude
when they become law in 2000 and never, let me know.

Oh, I certainly will.

a reply to: network dude

Lol govt is only prohibited from establishing a religion or giving credence to one over another. It is not prohibited from passing legislation that promotes religious ideals.

Jaden

a reply to: network dude

Separation of Church and State, what's that all about?

If a state passes a law banning abortion, it infringes on a Jewish person's inability to practice their faith. Meaning the state is attempting to legislate religion and a violation of the 1st Amendment.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Some Jews need to realize that not everything is about them, nor should it be 100% of the time. This is one of those times.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

There are Orthodox rabbinic sources that support abortion when a mother’s health is in danger even if her life is not at risk; when a fetus is conclusively determined to suffer from severe abnormalities; when a mother’s mental health is in danger; or when the pregnancy is the result of a forbidden sexual union.

The Conservative movement is somewhat more lenient in all these cases, explicitly understanding threats to a mother’s life as extending to psychological threats to her mental well-being. In 1983, the Conservative movement’s rabbinical authorities permitted abortion only “if a continuation of pregnancy might cause the mother severe physical or psychological harm, or when the fetus is judged by competent medical opinion as severely defective.”

www.myjewishlearning.com...

The Jewish texts and scholars take into account the mental wellbeing of the woman or girl, and if abortion is banned, plenty of them will be harmed, maimed and killed, by self-induced and back alley abortions.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Some Jews need to realize that not everything is about them, nor should it be 100% of the time. This is one of those times.

Too bad Christians don't realize that.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Yep. Depending on which Rabbinic interpretation you want to go with, pretty much any abortion can be justified under Jewish law.

If the life of the mother is at risk, then abortion stops being a social problem and instead becomes a medical problem.

The problem arises when the "social" life of the mother is t risk and abortion is used.

Does Louisiana have a Castle Doctrine? Is it legal to defend yourself or others? Because even states that do not have a full on spelled out Castle Doctrine have the right of self defense. It is a right of the People as it is guaranteed under the Second of all places.

Meanwhile 63 million were denied life in counter to both the Fifth and Fourteenth as they specifically mention due process at the Federal and State level as a condition of being terminated. Only the People themselves can kill without repercussions and then only as self defense or the defense of others.

Also it is religious dogma with some sects of Islam to stone a girl to death for dating or even kissing without permission let alone to have premarital sex. You may find that stoning to death isn’t protected under freedom of religion anywhere in the US. Also Rastafarianism did not grant free pass on weed in the US, especially when pot was the Devil’s Lettuce in all 50 states. Oh and the Amish can be drafted, they tend to make them serve as a supply depot clerk far from the lines, maybe even in the states. But they are not automatically granted a CO exemption to the draft notice.

Also be careful about slaughtering goats or sheep for religious holidays. You may have a case for a religious exemption but community standards will trump it because the government cannot foster your religion upon me if it counters my or the community standard’s dogma. Like a public Christmas tree in a predominantly Jewish or Jehovah’s Witness neighborhood isn’t going to happen if found offensive. The sheep/goat is typically a traditional Greek Orthodox or Eastern Orthodox Easter meal, in case you are wondering. Although really it is lamb and not the mutton of an older sheep. Been a long time since I saw lamb in the store.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: Xcalibur254

Can you provide any links to proposed state laws that would prohibit abortion if the mothers life is medically in danger. Not openions but actual proposed laws.

There aren't any and they know it

What they WANT is the ability to kill babies at any stage and at every inconvenience

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: network dude

Separation of Church and State, what's that all about?

If a state passes a law banning abortion, it infringes on a Jewish person's inability to practice their faith. Meaning the state is attempting to legislate religion and a violation of the 1st Amendment.

But if that were the case, wouldn’t that be where a lawsuit would come in? I thought we had some sort of protocol when an amendment is violated?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Ok, we can legalize abortion for Jews and minorities. Problem solved!