Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
the safety blanket of the day in deflecting.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

It’s the same thing parroted by western media

The above, is the safety blanket and deflection you refer to.

"Western media"
"MSM"

Getting things right 50% of the time still fares better than 0% of Russian media - state controlled.

To provide "proof" that you claim is necessary, on what is tantamount to an insignificant little space on the web, just to prove a point, but thereby signaling what and how we know things? Only someone with zero military stratagem efficacy would suggest that. In that vein, we all have to rely on the 50% margin for error of Western media....you included.

When Putin said the USA exited the ABM treaty in 2002 that was 100% fact.

When western media outlets claimed and reported that a IFV strela 20 that ran over a poor Ukranian civilian was Russian and Russian operated that was 100% lies

So your 50% is more like 0%

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

So your 50% is more like 0%

Oh ok, i get it. It's the "i know you are but what am i?" defense for the Pro-Putin agenda.

Picture that....

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Any more than the USA?

What on earth has that got to do with this invasion?

Because the USA invaded Afghanistan somehow justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
What form a logic is that?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

The Russian reactive armour on there mainline battle tanks comes in two types.

Meaning the older models are not going to be equipped with the likes of Kontakt-5 which is a second-generation type of reactive armour.

Far as we can see the Russians are not fielding many first rate tanks and seem to be sending in the older models aka the notorious T-72.

And the point is they seem to be rather easy to destroy with the likes of Javelin and TOW missiles.

Thats a fair comment.I have no issues with this comment as it describes clearly and coherently what is happening and doesnt imply Russian equipment is useless.

Respect for this.

I heard Canada sent 1960's RPG to Ukraine

nati... onalpost.com/news/national/backpacks-beans-and-60s-era-rocket-launchers-the-military-gear-canada-has-pledged-for-ukraine

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Any more than the USA?

What on earth has that got to do with this invasion?

Because the USA invaded Afghanistan somehow justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
What form a logic is that?

They invaded IRaq and other countries too but no that doesnt justify an invasion of Ukraine in itself. However, just like America had some (albeit crappy) reasons and intelligence to invade those nations... Russia have their own reasons which were echoed by US policy makers before we arrived at this conflict.

So you can keep your head in the sand about “why oh why did russia invade they shouldnt have done this” instead of facing the issue of what lead to the invasion. But thats for another thread

Ukraine Updates

- UN says 925 civilian deaths in Ukraine

www.usnews.com...


- Picture of 9 year old armed Ukranian girl was staged:

www.msn.com...

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

It just all need to stop ISeekTruth101.

Both sides need to come to the peace tables and sort out there differences before more poor sods die.

And for what?

Or rather who?

Do you imagine the average Russian or Ukrainian are ever going see any sorts of positives to this nonsensical "Special Military Operation"?

Because they wont, and they don't, that's a given.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

So your 50% is more like 0%

Oh ok, i get it. It's the "i know you are but what am i?" defense for the Pro-Putin agenda.

Picture that....

I shared two independently verifiable examples of information coming from Putin and western media, where Putin happened to be telling the truth and western media were caught pants down with biased reporting.

You then arrived at me being “pro putin”. Truth hurts? Or continue the scheduled programming of “bash russia 24/7”

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

So you are saying they are alike.....but the US invasion was wrong and the Russian invasion is right, even though they are alike?

I get the impression that your intense dislike of the USA clouds everything and is the underlying reason for your support of Putin; because you perceive him as anti-USA.

Many contributory reasons to this crisis, including very bad policy decisions by a succession of US/NATO/EU administrations....but certainly not exclusively them.
And none of that justifies invading an independent country and killing people.....that was Putin's decision and that's where ultimate responsibility lies.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

It just all need to stop ISeekTruth101.

Both sides need to come to the peace tables and sort out there differences before more poor sods die.

And for what?

Or rather who?

Do you imagine the average Russian or Ukrainian are ever going see any sorts of positives to this nonsensical "Special Military Operation"?

Because they wont, and they don't, that's a given.

Yeah they do, but compromises are going to be needed from Ukraines side. If many maintain that we should ignore Russias security concerns completely as they have done for 15 years now then the situation wont be resolved. It needs a pragmatic approach. War is affective all of us, the ukranians receiving the worst of it. I’d prefer peace. It needs a realistic approach and it needs understanding of how we arrived here.

Arming Ukraine and condemning russia and extreme sanctioning wont give Russia a way to exit this situation they will only intensify efforts. This is the latest on the US response to diplomacy:


“On Monday, the State Department signaled that the US is discouraging Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky from making concessions to Russia in negotiations that are aimed at ending the fighting in Ukraine.” Source: news.antiwar.com...

US policy makers and former secretary of defence echoed many moons ago that NATO need to treat carefully in Russias sphere of influence but those calls were ignored and many posters here would have you believe that “no NATO should have to worry about any fallout from Russia” well now thats not how the world works and this is exactly why we ended up with this conflict. And it wont be resolved until Russia gets taken seriously.

I’m. Just being pragmatic and looking at the issues head on. I wish for peace we just came out of Covid and the global economy cant handle this pressure down the line.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

If many maintain that we should ignore Russias security concerns completely as they have done for 15 years

What security concerns?? NATO is right now not making a move against Russia because they are, in fact worried about security concerns not just for Russia but for the entire world? If they weren't, NATO would have decimated Russia and it's incompetent forces.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Your not supposed to deal from weakness ISeekTruth101 hence Ukraine stance regarding compromise.

End of the day with sanctions and pressure Russia will run out of steam long before the West or Ukraine do.

And Putin's new colour of the day is apt to be with Sweden and Finland joining NATO never mind the poor Ukraine.

Salient point also, the West now knows Russia cannot carry out any sorts of Blitzkrieg or even manage proper mechanised columns if we are honest.

Putin is the one that needs to be pragmatic and come back to reality imho.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
...and doesnt imply Russian equipment is useless.

Of course it doesn't 'imply' that, it 100% informs that a Soviet era clunker like the T-72/90 is useless against modern weaponry, particularly if the reactive armor is subpar or ineffective. Might as well send the troops in with Lada clown cars.

a reply to: andy06shake

Or having "turret throwing contests" as one internet wag put it. Poor crewmen.

Cheers

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

So you are saying they are alike.....but the US invasion was wrong and the Russian invasion is right, even though they are alike?

I get the impression that your intense dislike of the USA clouds everything and is the underlying reason for your support of Putin; because you perceive him as anti-USA.

Many contributory reasons to this crisis, including very bad policy decisions by a succession of US/NATO/EU administrations....but certainly not exclusively them.
And none of that justifies invading an independent country and killing people.....that was Putin's decision and that's where ultimate responsibility lies.

Well I am merely echoing the concerns by US Policy makers that cautioned against NATOs expansion as it would lewd to fallout with Russia. Just because Nations can join NATOS Doesnt mean they should as we have learned. But people continue to remain ignorant, ignoring russia altogether and then condemning them once they react to them being ignored.

Here is thr US secretary of defence, not the secretary of walmart or some conspiracy forum3

“ In his 2014 memoir, Duty, Robert M. Gates, who served as secretary of defense in both Bush's administration and Barack Obama's, conceded that "trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO was truly overreaching." That initiative, he concluded, was a case of "recklessly ignoring what the Russians considered their own vital national interests."

So why is he not ignoring russias concerns but most posters here maintain we shouldnt have to worry about russias concerns???

Maybe he should join the thread.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Just because Nations can join NATOS Doesnt mean they should as we have learned.

I'd wager all I have that there isn't one country in NATO right now that wishes they didn't join.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
...and doesnt imply Russian equipment is useless.

Of course it doesn't 'imply' that, it 100% informs that a Soviet era clunker like the T-72/90 is useless against modern weaponry, particularly if the reactive armor is subpar or ineffective. Might as well send the troops in with Lada clown cars.

There we go, now thats a smart comment. You specifically cited a piece of equipment as uselesss in this day and age rather than your previous sweeping statements in implying russian equipment as a whole is useless which is ignorant.

I can agree with this.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
You specifically cited a piece of equipment as uselesss in this day and age rather than your previous sweeping statements in implying russian equipment as a whole is useless which is ignorant.

Did I say as a whole or are you arguing with your strawmans again? That's rhetorical by the way.

You know what my favorite kind of T-72 is? The Russian kind that just had its turret cooked off.

Have fun storming the castle....

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
Just because Nations can join NATOS Doesnt mean they should as we have learned.

I'd wager all I have that there isn't one country in NATO right now that wishes they didn't join.

I’d wager more money than you can afford that had NATO not expanded to Russia’s doorstep and deploy missiles 75 miles from their border, Russia wouldnt have invade Ukraine at all. Whether 2014 or 2022.

See years 1991 to 2014 for reference of Russia peace.