Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: McGinty

I think I know you better than to think you believe that....but that is exactly the way it is coming across.

Then that’s my shortcomings in making my point

a reply to: McGinty

.... then I’ll take my punt on this one: the possibility of Ukraine joining nato was the domino Putin needed to convince his generals to lead their men to war (assuming threats from his henchmen weren’t sufficient).

But that can easily be countered with the argument that if Russia hadn't had its eyes on the Ukraine and other former Soviet Union countries Ukraine would never have considered the possibility of joining NATO.
You have to bear in mind Ukraine's recent experience of years of subjugation under Russian rule in the old USSR....they have obviously justified fears of that happening again!

a reply to: Xcalibur254


NATO fingers precede 08 Russo-georgian war:
Relations officially began in 1994 when Georgia joined the NATO-run Partnership for Peace. Georgia has moved quickly following the Rose Revolution in 2003 to seek closer ties and eventual membership with NATO
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

I remember a time when if you even questioned the narrative that Nazis were the worst people in the world who killed 6 million people it would get you banned from this site and charged in some Nato countries.

Now we openly call to arm and fund them.

originally posted by: McGinty

NATO’s composed of countries that are no strangers to expansion and invasion.

The countries individually perhaps, but NATO as an orginization exists solely as a deterent to the former USSR, you know the one Putin so badly wants to re-glorify. When was the last time NATO, as an organization invaded a sovereign state?

originally posted by: McGinty

But does it look like that from the east, or does it look like an organisation composed of empiricists?

Are you suggesting that the east is so ignorant (no internet, no historical academia) that "how they look" upon things should supersede fact? I dont believe that's what you're suggesting, im making the point that they knkow as well as anyone what things are, and are not viewing things as a federation cutoff from all sources of information.

originally posted by: McGinty

I’m not saying that’s the case, but I can appreciate how the east might think this.

I can't appreciate it. They (used to before cutting off their own people from it all) have internet, chronicling institutions and organizations and their track records. Russia - was not previously - living in a bubble.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: all2human

The nuts and bolts of it is NATO is as much as a problem to world
and the point i'm conveying
Had they not had their fingers in all of these countries we wouldn't be in this predicament

Russia has a 700 year history of expansion and invasion, let's talk about how long NATO has existed.

BS Thats why their are so many former Russian countries like Ukraine right?

originally posted by: just4fun

BS Thats why their are so many former Russian countries like Ukraine right?

Are you daft or what?

That's literally what this conflict is about, Russia taking back Ukraine. Putin himself said as much.

In a televised address to the nation, Putin explicitly denied that Ukraine had ever had “real statehood,” and said the country was an integral part of Russia’s “own history, culture, spiritual space.”

Putin’s speech, which went on for nearly an hour, was a new twist in the long-running battle to define Ukraine’s place in the world. In it, Putin set out his belief more forcefully than ever before that Ukraine is intrinsically Russian, that its three decades as a nation-state have been incoherent, and that the country owes its existence to a series of mistakes by bumbling Soviet leaders.

Here

a reply to: just4fun

But what I would expect from actual Nazi sympathisers

So everyone who doesn't support Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a 'Nazi sympathiser'?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: just4fun

But what I would expect from actual Nazi sympathisers

So everyone who doesn't support Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a 'Nazi sympathiser'?

Cheers

originally posted by: just4fun
I remember a time when if you even questioned the narrative that Nazis were the worst people in the world who killed 6 million people it would get you banned from this site and charged in some Nato countries.

Now we openly call to arm and fund them.

Nobody is supporting nazis.

We are supporting a country that happens to have a few nazis in it's population.

BIG difference.

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcalibur254

Take NATO out of the equation would Russia have invaded Georgia?
honest question

If NATO didn't exist, russia would have invaded ALL of Europe long ago.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: just4fun

But what I would expect from actual Nazi sympathisers

So everyone who doesn't support Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a 'Nazi sympathiser'?

NO

everyone that wants to arm and fund them are supporting Nazis

But everyone that doesnt buy into the narrative is a Putin propagandists though right?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: just4fun
I remember a time when if you even questioned the narrative that Nazis were the worst people in the world who killed 6 million people it would get you banned from this site and charged in some Nato countries.

Now we openly call to arm and fund them.

Nobody is supporting nazis.

We are supporting a country that happens to have a few nazis in it's population.

BIG difference.

Happens to have alot of Nazis in its military...

originally posted by: just4fun

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: just4fun

But what I would expect from actual Nazi sympathisers

So everyone who doesn't support Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a 'Nazi sympathiser'?

NO

everyone that wants to arm and fund them are supporting Nazis

But everyone that doesnt buy into the narrative is a Putin propagandists though right?

So you think Zelinsky and the Ukrainian government are nazis?

Absurd.



But yes, everyone enthusiastically spreading putin's propaganda, is a russian propagandist.

Duh.

originally posted by: just4fun

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: just4fun
I remember a time when if you even questioned the narrative that Nazis were the worst people in the world who killed 6 million people it would get you banned from this site and charged in some Nato countries.

Now we openly call to arm and fund them.

Nobody is supporting nazis.

We are supporting a country that happens to have a few nazis in it's population.

BIG difference.

Happens to have alot of Nazis in its military...

Define 'a lot'.

BIG difference.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: just4fun

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: just4fun
I remember a time when if you even questioned the narrative that Nazis were the worst people in the world who killed 6 million people it would get you banned from this site and charged in some Nato countries.

Now we openly call to arm and fund them.

Nobody is supporting nazis.

We are supporting a country that happens to have a few nazis in it's population.

BIG difference.

Happens to have alot of Nazis in its military...

Define 'a lot'.

BIG difference.

You tell me how many open Nazis in your military is too many?

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: just4fun

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: just4fun

But what I would expect from actual Nazi sympathisers

So everyone who doesn't support Putin's invasion of Ukraine is a 'Nazi sympathiser'?

NO

everyone that wants to arm and fund them are supporting Nazis

But everyone that doesnt buy into the narrative is a Putin propagandists though right?

So you think Zelinsky and the Ukrainian government are nazis?

Absurd.



But yes, everyone enthusiastically spreading putin's propaganda, is a russian propagandist.

Duh.

And everyone who is enthusiastically spreading the WEF Nazis lies are Nazis.