Entropy Disproves Abiogenesis

a reply to: cooperton

If one thinks about the local solar body it is part of the larger black hole that went nova who knows how long ago... as with most of the other bodies left out in space as accreditation or what appears as a galaxy at a distance. All such solar bodies no matter how large or small go through a similar process. A gravity wave or shock of light and heat and as soon as those start cooling and settling life forms occur where they have the capacity for it(habitable zones) as vast as the solar winds(rays) have or could carry it.

Such a thing is completely in line with thermal dynamics as the local solar body and others are a dynamo.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: rnaa

Entropy applies if no new energy is introduced into the system.

Our universe has a constant flow of energy coming from outside it, called "dark energy".

Dark energy is IN our universe, not outside it.

originally posted by: rnaa

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
a reply to: rnaa

Entropy applies if no new energy is introduced into the system.

Our universe has a constant flow of energy coming from outside it, called "dark energy".

Dark energy is IN our universe, not outside it.

Really? So, where is dark energy coming from then?

originally posted by: Crowfoot
a reply to: cooperton

If one thinks about the local solar body it is part of the larger black hole that went nova who knows how long ago... as with most of the other bodies left out in space as accreditation or what appears as a galaxy at a distance. All such solar bodies no matter how large or small go through a similar process. A gravity wave or shock of light and heat and as soon as those start cooling and settling life forms occur where they have the capacity for it(habitable zones) as vast as the solar winds(rays) have or could carry it.

Such a thing is completely in line with thermal dynamics as the local solar body and others are a dynamo.

super massive explosions can not create order. Dynamite doesn't build houses, it destroys them.

a reply to: cooperton

Do you expect a decayed leaf to turn back from dirt into a living leaf again? Because that's what you're arguing here.

In a word: Yes.

Living organisms decompose. Decomposition releases carbon dioxide. Plants need carbon dioxide to grow and reproduce. This is the unending cycle of life. Order from disorder. Complex purpose driven structure from baser components.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel


In a word: Yes.

Living organisms decompose. Decomposition releases carbon dioxide. Plants need carbon dioxide to grow and reproduce. This is the unending cycle of life. Order from disorder. Complex purpose driven structure from baser components.

That scenario implies all the living organisms are already in play. I am referring to an abiogenesis event. DNA and protein building blocks do not polymerize spontaneously... it's against thermodynamic law. Decomposition of proteins and DNA is spontaneous, where synthesis in non-spontaneous... this is why life cannot come from non-life by blind chemical interactions.

a reply to: cooperton

imagine a universe where everything worked out that entropy was the primary cause of life to begin with. With the life phase being a transitory phase of star matter. Among quadrillions of interactions every second, the by product is an order that arises in life itself.

In a fractal universe, this concept is not foreign.

a reply to: cooperton

Your entire premise treats the earth and the rise of life here as a closed system. There's a rather large nuclear reaction taking place about 96million miles from here which radically impacts all aspects of what transpires on earth. Not to mention all other influences that are outside of earth.

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: cooperton

False. Your analogies fail, and your analysis fails. Again. As always.

Entropy applies if no new energy is introduced into the system.

Homeowner understand this. If you put no energy into maintaining your home, it falls into disrepair, but if you do properly maintain your home it can last for a very long time indeed.

There are homes that are hundreds or even thousands of years old in daily use today as homes.

False?

New energy? What is the source of that energy? For homeowners, it is sourced from the homeowner - ie, an outside/higher intelligence.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: cooperton

It's not like out of nowhere there were suddenly complicated biological beings, they developed over time, first a cell who 'learned' something than a cell that got that code of the first cell and learned something new additionally etc.

Your argument utterly fails with the addition of the 'etc'...

That 'etc' requires one to believe that trillions of cells, all undergo the exact same mutation, at the exact same time.

That is the only way that 'evolution' of one species into another could possibly happen. And it would have to happen all the time. And the fossil record would literally be overwhelmed with countless examples.

It isn't.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

and this is just looking at what is happening right now. there are 14bil years of "things" that have happened, including "things" happening when the laws of physics were a little different than today.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: cooperton

imagine a universe where everything worked out that entropy was the primary cause of life to begin with. With the life phase being a transitory phase of star matter. Among quadrillions of interactions every second, the by product is an order that arises in life itself.

In a fractal universe, this concept is not foreign.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: cooperton

Your entire premise treats the earth and the rise of life here as a closed system. There's a rather large nuclear reaction taking place about 96million miles from here which radically impacts all aspects of what transpires on earth. Not to mention all other influences that are outside of earth.

The sun is an ordered system though, along with the solar system. How did this order emerge, unless there was already order to begin? If there was already order to begin with this is exactly in line with the notions of intelligent design where the universe is an ordered creation. If it began as random chaos, then order could not have emerged due to laws of entropy.

explosions destroy buildings, they don't build them.

Also think of the difficulty in making a house to be level. Now imagine the difficulty in making an entire solar system to be level. Entropy does not create such things.

originally posted by: cooperton
The sun is an ordered system though, along with the solar system.

Moving from a state of high entropy to low entropy via consumption of its fuel.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Moving from a state of high entropy to low entropy via consumption of its fuel.

The sun's spontaneous energy emission is increasing entropy though, not decreasing entropy

This means the system (the universe) must have started out as ordered... otherwise there would not be order

originally posted by: cooperton
The sun's spontaneous energy emission is increasing entropy though, not decreasing entropy

I didn't say 'decrease', I said 'low'. The eventual final state of the universe is a low entropy homogenous one where each square meter is identical to the next, i.e. energy will be spread equally throughout the universe.

You obviously don't understand entropy at all if you are making pedestrian mistakes like this.

a reply to: cooperton

A big ball of mercury is order dropping it an explosion all of those balls try to return to the one not the explosion... the same with what we call an iron nickel core radiating as an electromagnet to return back to the one.

a reply to: cooperton

There are indications that there is a level of laws that underpins the laws we operate under. Meaning the laws of physics might have modifications that can be made.

Nonetheless, gravity is the engine driving the order, typically in a part of space where the laws of physics are pushed to their limits.

originally posted by: cooperton
The sun is an ordered system though, along with the solar system. How did this order emerge, unless there was already order to begin? If there was already order to begin with this is exactly in line with the notions of intelligent design where the universe is an ordered creation. If it began as random chaos, then order could not have emerged due to laws of entropy.

explosions destroy buildings, they don't build them.

Also think of the difficulty in making a house to be level. Now imagine the difficulty in making an entire solar system to be level. Entropy does not create such things.

Please enlighten me, because I can't think of a single factor of our sun that is 'ordered'. It's forming was never forecast and could not be predicted. It burns irregularly and at constantly changing rate. It's demise can only be estimated, and there is an error rate of several million years. It's not even a uniform sphere. What is it that makes it 'ordered' for you?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Exactly why the E=MC^2 is important in Einstein's model. Newtons as soon as one leaves the standard Earth model? Only fit when you plug in the numbers already quantified.

Time is not really quantifiable on the macro and micro scale other than the decay or Einstein's equation as it relates to particle masses alone or in combination as to how quick or slow such things a consumed. Ignorant of wood or fire? Don't teach fire and wood is what some people say... and see what those you'd want to teach it use as fire and wood on their own. Such is an important thing as far as "alien contact" goes in regards to information sharing.

A tinderbox used to be seen as a work of the devil not being able to reproduce it where hunkering down with a stick and a bow was the known method and easily reproducible by looking at it. Carrying around the tinderbox like it was the kings throne until reproduced or learned how is al those people not finding the bow superior could do.

The gods must be crazy empathizes this point; and it is the exact weapon that all life no matter how large or small has used against each other. if people claim to be the followers of someone at least know the person's language... Yay Christ has returned... um whats he saying? I don't know... then the smart ass screams at him "Speak English ya immigrant!" of course that guys "god" is supposed to be responsible for mixing or messing up the language so that smart ass just exalted that guys god not even knowing it or had forgotten such a thing being lost in the moment.

Anyhoo