Cop fatally shoots wheelchair bound man 9 times in back

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: yuppa

No its called enforcing the law.

He was immediately fired though, his superiors disagree with you. It's not about optics, it's about what was a reasonable course of action, and what else could of been done. This cop was reckless.

I looked after a quadriplegic for about 5 years, so I'm quit familiar with people who have disabilities.

his superiors are afraid for their jobs is whats is wrong.

No, shooting a guy in a wheelchair in the back 8 times, pausing a second or 2 to drill one in the head, with a store employee somewhat in line of fire, is whats wrong. This f'ing coward had a whole lot of opportunity to do it different. Quit licking boots. In no sane world is this acceptable.

SMGDH

Not licking boots,just stating a fact the higher ups if they did not fire him would lose their jobs,so They are afraid for their jobs correct?

No, I doubt it, unless you are a super authoritarian, what this cop did was reckless, and beyond reasonable, beyond policy.

still didnt answer my question.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: yuppa

No its called enforcing the law.

He was immediately fired though, his superiors disagree with you. It's not about optics, it's about what was a reasonable course of action, and what else could of been done. This cop was reckless.

I looked after a quadriplegic for about 5 years, so I'm quit familiar with people who have disabilities.

his superiors are afraid for their jobs is whats is wrong.

No, shooting a guy in a wheelchair in the back 8 times, pausing a second or 2 to drill one in the head, with a store employee somewhat in line of fire, is whats wrong. This f'ing coward had a whole lot of opportunity to do it different. Quit licking boots. In no sane world is this acceptable.

SMGDH

Not licking boots,just stating a fact the higher ups if they did not fire him would lose their jobs,so They are afraid for their jobs correct?

No, I doubt it, unless you are a super authoritarian, what this cop did was reckless, and beyond reasonable, beyond policy.

still didnt answer my question.

I said..no, I doubt it. But I wouldn't really know for sure. I think it was the right decision to fire him. I guess though, police officials should be afraid for the jobs, if not doing the right thing. So, I guess it's possible.

a reply to: vonclod

thanks.well lets just see how the trial shakes out,then circle back to it when its over.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: vonclod

thanks.well lets just see how the trial shakes out,then circle back to it when its over.

Lets see what the charges will be.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: didntasktobeborned

All cops are “regular guys”

Would you rather LEOs be elite Ivy League types? You really want someone than regular guys/gals enforcing the law? Really?

Had a friend suggest one time that if someone wants to be a cop the very first phase of their training should be doing a year in prison. Split up the time on all security levels. If they still want to be a cop after that, then the academy etc etc.
And when they are put on the job, one day a week has to be spent chairing NA and AA meetings and one weekend a month working with NAMI..Sidenote referencing past communication. Seeing the knife. Not a pocket knife either. Dragging hippie out of his chair could have very likely gotten Barney sliced to ribbons. Your tactical solution posted earlier would have solved the situation methinks, even if you didn't call in air or marksmen. Think anybody will use this for a shoot, don't shoot training vid? You'd thin the wheat in a class environment with this one. My dad was a deputy a long time ago in a county far, far away..Sitting in a truckstop having coffee with another deputy. Woman walks up and stabs my dad in the shoulder with a dinner fork..He pulls the fork out standing up at the same time as the woman pulls out a pair of garden shears while exclaiming "you think that's bad? I could have got you with these!" So he knocked her out. Closed fisted Im pretty sure..Should he have dumped the mag in his revolver? Ha. Come to find out the woman had recently escaped a mental facility.So my solution of dragging him out of the chair looks like it would have most certainly ended in injury to me or even death..yes he could have been trying to ditch the knife or put it in the toolbox, So assess all around threat.Render him impotent by use of non lethal force..your solution would have been ideal..But I doubt this cop knew how to utilize those resources. Now for the criminal charge element…Nope..not unless you're going to fix what caused it. I have seen cops criminally charged for a whole lot less than this. Which is truly a sad state of affairs.I stand by my initial assessment that he was a horny psycho. Put him on the rubber gun list and cigarette butt duty. Had a buddy that was a GB, he told me that after his first firefight he realized he had accident in his pantelones at some point during the altercation.(not number one or number two)Said he worried about the normality of such an event so he talked to his therapist, who assured him he wasn't Fd up in the head…She was right in the line of fire too..Not saying for sure but the possibility exists that some 'emotions' got a little twisted, so the sight picture..center mass of wheelchair guy, right above that, store girls head…?? Already had a knife pulled on him according to radio call..Put yourself in front of the threat.

a reply to: yuppa

just remember this was over a tool box.


he was going back into the store and had to use an electric wheel chair to do so, it isn't like he is a light risk


between the cop and the security guard(the one who shot) they could have put him on the ground.

or just tip him out by pulling over the chair or him out of it, Police in the UK disarm and arrest knife wielding abled body people all the time


the shot to the head at the end is murder.


if ANYONE of us here did that we would be looking at life or a death penalty





and the thing is the shooter was off duty so he is not covered by the blanket of the law that protects cops on duty, he was a civilian at the time and the outrage over this will land him in jail at the very least and executed at the extreme.



the fact he was fired almost instantly doesn't seem like it is going to turn out well for him]



he waited for the guy to hit the ground and then shot him in the head that is pre meditated murder.


maybe the first 7 shots weren't but the last two were. he had time to think what he was doing and he murdered that guy over a cheep tool box


i don't condone stealing but executing someone over a small item is sooooo far over the line

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: yuppa

just remember this was over a tool box.


he was going back into the store and had to use an electric wheel chair to do so, it isn't like he is a light risk


between the cop and the security guard(the one who shot) they could have put him on the ground.

or just tip him out by pulling over the chair or him out of it, Police in the UK disarm and arrest knife wielding abled body people all the time


the shot to the head at the end is murder.


if ANYONE of us here did that we would be looking at life or a death penalty





and the thing is the shooter was off duty so he is not covered by the blanket of the law that protects cops on duty, he was a civilian at the time and the outrage over this will land him in jail at the very least and executed at the extreme.



the fact he was fired almost instantly doesn't seem like it is going to turn out well for him]



he waited for the guy to hit the ground and then shot him in the head that is pre meditated murder.


maybe the first 7 shots weren't but the last two were. he had time to think what he was doing and he murdered that guy over a cheep tool box


i don't condone stealing but executing someone over a small item is sooooo far over the line

the world would be a better place if all criminals who stole with a weapon,raped,and killed would be killed outright and swiftly. doing those things should carry a implicit decree a person is waiving their rights to trial or humane treatment since they didn't give the same to their victims.

And the guy was off duty? yeah in that case send him to the firing squad.

I think this definitely could've been handled better and the cop should go to jail but things like this can happen when a criminal resists arrest. Things tend to get out of hand in a hurry and you just never know how it's going to end.

a reply to: penroc3

The incident unfolded due to criminal actions and threats of violence. The man is dead not over the toolbox, but refusal to comply with a lawful order after being identified with a weapon, a spontaneous statement threat to use that weapon previously, and approaching a venue where potential hostages could become victimized. Were going in circles here though. Hindsight says yes he was sincerly disabled, but at the moment of occurence these were not established facts.
You never seen homeless lazy bums stand up out of their wheelchairs and use their legs just fine?? I sure have.

I once saw a man at the 22nd street and hillsborough avenue walmart jump up out of a regular wheelchair after their loss prevention asked him to stop. He left behind the handful of prepaid phones he cut off the locking secure peg hooks and took off like the wind as if trying to break some olympic track record.

People have it in them to commit the lowest of deceitful behavior to further their crimes.

Of course i am not absolving the officer of his own personal choices either. A light sprint could have easily knocked him out of his chair from behind and verified on the spot if he was in fact disabled.

Fire the cop, allow the living relatives, if any, to collect their windfall from the municipality. No prison time needed though.

a reply to: trollz

This is really horrible how did we get to this point

a reply to: trollz

stole a toolbox

being caught shoplifting

refusing TO OBEY
the commands to stop

...

no apparent reason

(Emphasis and corrections mine)

Eh.. do you not see the contradiction?

This man STOLE something, was CAUGHT shoplifting, REFUSED TO OBEY COMMAND TO STOP..

..and you call this 'no reason'?

Look, if a cop yells a command at you, you either obey that command or are shot, everyone knows this. We can debate about how lawful it is, how right or wrong it is, but in the situation, the cops can't know your danger level, so for everyone's safety (even the other people, the public), it's best if the situation is de-escalated as quickly as possible, then you can make assesments and sue the cops if they did something wrong. You don't just ignore the cops in the live situation - ANY adult should know there will be consequences for that.

Maybe shooting is a bit overkill, but these are stressed people that have probably seen many times how tazers don't always work that well, even guns don't always stop someone that's drugged out of their minds until their organs stop functioning.

Look how hard it was to kill Rasputing back in the day.

Just because someone is using a wheelchair, doesn't mean they are above the law - otherwise, criminals could just use wheelchairs and no one could do anything about it. You can't know if someone is crippled or not just by them using a wheelchair, becacuse a criminal situation can be tricky and many 'innocent' disguises have been used in criminal history to fool people to think they're just some weak, innocent, wheelchair grandma, when they're really a thief and a thug or even a murderer.

The cops can't take chances in a live situation, if someone doesn't listen, regardless of what they're driving, they have to take action. What do you expect a cop to do in that situation? Someone reported to be criminal AND not listening or obeying commands? What would YOU do as a cop, when there might be multiple lives at stake if you don't quickly do something?

I am not saying anyone should ever shoot anyone, but in this type of a situation, the cop could have theoretically saved like 20 lives by shooting someone.

It's a really stupid thing to not stop when a cop tells you to stop. You should KNOW what follows after such stupidity.

originally posted by: Tempter
Unreal.

Yes, your comment truly is that.

Thankfully, the Chief of Police already fired him and this piggy is going to pay.

So, in your opinion, it's OK to do crimes and police shouldn't stop them if someone decides to use a wheelchair to do it, and when they refuse to obey the commands, it's OK to just let them go and possibly murder people, take hostages, cause havoc, etc.?

Or.. would it be better to STOP that kind of criminal, threatening individual that refuses to obey commands? If the guy obeyed the cops, he would most likely be unharmed to this day.

You can't be that blind and one-sided. Your comment proves you have no understanding of what a live situation is like, you don't have all the facts, you want to de-escalate the situation, you want to protect yourself and the public, and when there's a threat that doesn't respond, wheelchair or not, what would you do? Wish them a nice day? Come on, GET REAL, and stop writing unreal comments.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Someone in a wheelchair is more than capable of causing deadly harm.

How do they know he’s truly bound to the chair? Killers are known for ruses.

When he started reaching behind himself, he sealed the deal. He’s a threat to my partner and the public he’s going down and the courts can debate it later

Yes, plenty of limits. Just not this one! I don’t see someone in a wheelchair as more or less of a threat than anyone else. There may be logistical issues of getting to a specific victim, but who knows in the moment if he’s using the chair as a prop?

It’s the reaching and swinging a knife that gets me

9 times seems excessive. Granted. But it’s a testament to his training that he didn’t mag dump him. Around half the ammo in his mag, likely, was fired. It’s hard to regain composure in that moment

Sure you can go for a less lethal. But what happens when you’re wrong? What happens when he suddenly draws a handgun and starts killing innocent people? The problem is people not knowing how to act properly around other

I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This isn’t about an innocent man being gunned down

BEST COMMENT!!
I agree completely, there is simply no way of knowing what weapons a person may have on them.
It always struck me that when George Floyd got out of that police car where he was placed, what if he had injured an innocent bystander trying to get away from police? Then Chauvin and the rest of them would have been in major trouble for allowing Floyd to escape. If LE tells you to halt, or to stay in place in their police vehicle, do as you are told or face the consequences.

I have to say that for some reason WalMart is a definite trouble spot - more than a few times I have been at our local store, and heard fights break out, or horrendous screaming. I always do the same thing - drop everything and run out the nearest door, not waiting for gun fire or something similar.