Would you have killed Hitler if you had the chance? Old Testament Ethics

If you were given the chance to kill Hitler before his rise to power, would you do it? Or at the very least, would you insist upon someone doing it?

Hitler was incapable of taking over the world. He did not have strong enough forces or strategy to do so. But what if there was a force so strong and malevolent that it did have the means to take over the world? Such a force would even more so be required to be eliminated from the earth. Just like a malignant tumor threatens the entire organism, such a civilization would have to be eradicated as soon as possible.

Herein comes all of the Old Testament mass eliminations ordered by God. Many of these passages are taken out of context, and God is assumed to be an illogical genocidal maniac, when instead God is acting like the p53 gene - which is the gene that stops a cancer cell from continuing to grow.

Take for example Jericho, when Joshua and company are ordered to eliminate the entirety of the people living there. These weren't ordinary people they were told to kill, they were a malicious race of hybrid giants that descended from a race of angels that defied natural ordinances. It is not just the Hebrews who talked of this race, but also the Sumerians with the Anunnaki and also the Greeks with their myriad of unbelievably powerful people of the past.

The Hebrews called these hybrids the Anakim, among other names. When spies were ordered to go scout the land of Jericho, they reported that they were as grasshoppers compared to the stature of these giants. (I may also write a thread regarding the abundance of evidence that giants roamed the earth in the past). These were literally giants that ate human flesh (Numbers 13). God would not only eliminate this threat to the earth, but also show the Israelites what is possible when you trust in Him. Surely enough, the walls of Jericho (which means "moon" [???]) came down just as God said they would. An ancient map of Jericho shows this was no ordinary city:



Another instance of protecting the earth from total destruction is the global flood. The earth had become so depraved that the earth was not able to bear its inhabitants. Again, just like an organism that begins to weaken as a cancer cell grows. We as mortal humans, incapable of foreseeing the future, cannot doubt that this was absolutely necessary. It is unanimous among cultures that describe this global flood that it was in fact necessary.

The deeper theme to all of this is that concordance with God is life, and defiance leads to death. This is not because God wants any of his children to perish, but rather because free will is in the equation, and the people are allowed to either choose the path of life or death. You know what you should do and what you should not do, it is a matter of whether or not you actually follow these inclinations that are leading you to health and prosperity, or death and disease. Sin is in fact pathogenic and deadly.

Personally any time I start to get sick, whether mildly or severely, it is due to me alienating myself from the way of truth which is within all of us. It is not so much God dealing the sickness to me, as it is me becoming sick because I am separating myself from the one who gives me life. A plant begins to die if it is not exposed to enough light. Even atheists are judged fairly, and their morality, or lack thereof, is distributed back to them accordingly. I am basing this off my days as an atheist, and how I was still dealt with justly based on my actions even though I didn't believe in a higher Intellgence.

This justice system is built into our biology. A great example comes from when Aaron and Miriam question Moses marrying a Cu#e (black) woman. This sort of racial prejudice warranted Aaron and Miriam a warning, where Miriam broke out in an intense rash that made her realize her racist bigotry was not in accordance with archetypal behavior.

This same logic is applied to civilizations as a whole. Take for example Sodom and Gomorrah, who had become such a repugnant nation that when angels were sent to warn them of their due destruction, they attempted to forcefully rape the angels! Lot, in an act of desperation, offered the angry mob his virgin daughters so that they wouldn't hurt the angelic messengers, but the angels disabled the mob so they could get away. When a nation has become unrepetentingly awful, imminent death comes their way.

This is the divine natural order implementing justice. So long as you are alive, there is still time to go towards the path of life. Look at Nineveh.

I consider how greed effects my mind, how it makes me blind. It makes me idolize money and results in the possibility of compromising my values for monetary gain. I have found the side-effects of this are anxiety and anger. go down the list and any sort of "sin" has its psychological side effects. How often has lust prevented you from actually forming a loving relationship with your spouse or crush? How often has laziness made you anxious or self-loathing? The list goes on and on.

we know what is right to do, it is just a matter of having the courage to actually do it. To blame God for your problems or the problems of the world would be to make a judgement against the divine natural order, which is infallible. If you are in a rut, practice a week of diligence doing everything you know you should do, and removing the things from your life that you are prioritizing above your own authenticity.

All due repercussions are removable because we have an Intercessor who has taken on the due punishments of the entire world. return to Him, and He will return to you.

Taste and see.

I think that everyone has the chance to be something other than what they become if that makes sense.

Had Hitler been raised in any other circumstances other than what he was, had his life experiences been anything other than what they were, perhaps he would have made different choices in his life.

We're a product of both nature and nurture, and how those two interact determine a lot of things about us. We're not 100% one or the other. Change any one thing in both and outcomes could be wildly different. Truthfully, only God is alpha and omega to see and know all. We can't. We can't look at any one person and determine who and what they will be based on who and what they are now to make those choices, and, of course, we cannot go back in time to eliminate someone like Hitler whom we know about.

So you are setting up a catch 22. Would I have removed him knowing what I know now? An idiot would say no, but knowing what I know now, I cannot go back and do it. None of us can. We're anchored in time. And if we lived then, it was not given to us to know. None of us would have any real idea what kind of a monster he would be, and even Hitler was merely on that path and not there himself. At any point, it was given to him to make different choices and not move in that way. Of course, he didn't ultimately, but living in that time, anchored there, none of us would know that.

And because of this idea that I'm explaining rather poorly, it isn't given to us to ultimately judge who will and won't go to heaven or to hell. We can't see an know all, including the hearts of others.

originally posted by: ketsuko

So you are setting up a catch 22. Would I have removed him knowing what I know now? An idiot would say no, but knowing what I know now, I cannot go back and do it. None of us can. We're anchored in time. And if we lived then, it was not given to us to know. None of us would have any real idea what kind of a monster he would be, and even Hitler was merely on that path and not there himself. At any point, it was given to him to make different choices and not move in that way. Of course, he didn't ultimately, but living in that time, anchored there, none of us would know that.

Yeah exactly, glad you got into that because I removed it from the post because it would be a lot to try to say. Since we are incapable of knowing how things will turn out, it makes us incapable of making the proper judgement. Whereas God, who knows all time and how things will turn out, is reliable for stepping in every so often to mitigate a potential world-ending disaster before its due time.

What is interesting to read is all the apparent "injustices" committed by God are actually very necessary intercessions to direct the world away from total destruction. The things we can learn from these stories are the behaviors and group-thinks that inevitably lead to an apparently irreversible depravity.

I feel like that battle is currently happening in our government

a reply to: cooperton

Hitler was a figure head, Himmler was even more evil than Hitler and so too was the man whom was meant to take over from Hitler but whom WAS assassinated Heydrich whom was perhaps one of the most evil men in the NAZI party though they were actually all very evil people.

At the start of the war the British and later Western Allies all had plans to kill Hitler and a later had the opportunity several times but by that time they had realized that Hitler was an idiot in charge, he had bumbled the invasion of Russia sending troop's to encircle a city (St Petersburg, Stalingrad) which was about his personal hatred of and fear of Stalin instead of following his general strong advice to consolidate there lines in the summer and secure the oil fields that they had captured.

He stopped Operation Sea Lion from going ahead because he had this idea that he could still get the British on his side and gave us time to regroup and re-arm.

Killing him may have led to us losing the war.

But before he came to power, before 1933, before the NAZI's had gained strength with there vile ideology and hate, well there was an English soldier who had him in his sights and decided not to pull the trigger because that little mental case of a corporal had his arm in a sling.

What you have to ask yourself is if you threw a spanner into the work's back then how would the world look today.

The British and French Empires would be intact and many nations would still be under colonial rule including India.

The Japanese would not have attacked pearl harbour but would have continued to build up there might so a later war could have happened and they would have continued there conquest of China eventually coming into prolonged conflict with Russia but by that time having the resources to back them up, an early battle saw the Japanese lost badly to some Mongol soldiers fighting for the Russians but the Japanese were independent of Germany conducting there own biological warfare experiments including plague carrying flees dropped in a bomb onto a Chinese city, the question there is whom would the western empires have aided if they became involved, the Soviets whom there closer to home or the Japanese whom were actually a growing threat to them at that time.

Poland and Czechoslovakia would have remained sovereign states, Poland an old power with an outdated military but some very good soldiers despite there poor equipment and the Czech's with state of the art weapons and a modern but small army whom mostly sold there weapons to other nations.

The Jewish state may never have been realized.

The world of today would look very different had Hitler died in the Trenches that day.

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't know if there is any truth to it but I once heard a story that he had been spurned by a Jewish girl, that he had a Son to a Landlady over here in Liverpool England were he supposedly stayed for a short time perhaps on his way to the US after or before WW1 but changed his mind and went back to German all hidden from history and that someone in Liverpool therefore is actually his descendant in all likelihood.

But He sounds like he was a bit autistic as a child, he loved painting but had no great talent and supposedly developed his hatred of the Jews out of seeing them living well during the worst period of German history after the nation was forced to pay reparations to the Allies powers of the first world war while it's own people starved on the streets, a very real time when they were boiling up shoe leather in the 1920's.

What the truth of any of that is though, in all likelihood he was just another maniac and had he not been the one to end up charge some others in that nasty movement may have taken his place, how that would have affected event's though?.

We do not know how much of the rumour was true but his brother apparently did live in Liverpool and later moved to America were his nephew whom WAS born in Liverpool went on to change his name from Hitler to Houston and joined the US military to fight against his uncle.
www.historyofliverpool.com...

Do you mean kill Hitler as a child before he was the Hitler we know? Or do you mean after he was already grown and in the Third Reich?

originally posted by: Mark08
Do you mean kill Hitler as a child before he was the Hitler we know? Or do you mean after he was already grown and in the Third Reich?

Either. Essentially, knowing what you know now, and you had the opportunity, would you kill Hitler with a time machine?

I am using it as a comparison to divine interventions noted in history that have stopped tyrannical regimes from destroying the earth. Especially given the implication that such divine intervention would be knowledgeable of whether or not its intervention would offer benefit or detriment to humankind as a whole

a reply to: LABTECH767

That's a good point. we don't know the extending consequences of such an action. Divine forces, especially the Most High, would be capable fo knowing when to intervene

a reply to: cooperton

In theory since travelling in time would really be creating or travelling to a parallel reality you could kill him again and again and again and watch to see what the outcome was but your base time line from which you had originally travelled - but marooned yourself out of by changing the event's would remain the same (That drawing on SCIFI rather than just if you could really travel in time, I would say though as you point out God is the best to judge these matters, I think also that Hitler was the outcome of evil paranormal event's related to this ***).

***
grandmageri422.me...

After this was moved to Germany many evil things happened there and from there radiated outward, so much so that many fundamentalist and OTHER Christians in Germany have even held protests outside the museum to have it removed from there nation and perhaps sent back to the city it was brought from.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: cooperton

In theory since travelling in time would really be creating or travelling to a parallel reality you could kill him again and again and again and watch to see what the outcome was but your base time line from which you had originally travelled - but marooned yourself out of by changing the event's would remain the same.

lol yeah there's no Hitler to kill in your timeline if you went back in time and killed Hitler. I guess this is why this sort of stuff at the end of the day is left for extra-dimensional interventions to prevent something before it even happens.

Tough call.

Thou shalt not kill. Yet there are many examples where it's celebrated, especially in battle.

Once Hitler was recognized as a real threat to so many, his murder becomes more of a self defense or preservation. Sadly, like law enforcement, you have to wait until the crime is committed before acting or you become the criminal.

Then there's the butterfly effect to consider.

a reply to: Paschar0

You could take the view Kill him to save others, leave him alive and you are partially responsible for there deaths if you had that ability.

It becomes a moral argument, do I kill this murderer to prevent those murders or do I let him live and live with the moral pain that I did not act to save those people.

I think that a Doctor would see him as a Disease and probably opt to remove the disease.

a reply to: cooperton

True what they say about power corrupting.

By all accounts he was a decorated war hero and extremely brave soldier who rose from the gutter before leading Germany to an unprecedented economic recovery. His mistake was attempting to expand German borders, despite a fair majority of European nations welcoming his arrival after seeing his success in Germany. If you take away the mass genocide some of his policies and achievements are rather impressive. As far as dictators go i still say i'd rather be a German under Hitlers rule over a Russian under Stalin.

I'd imagine had Germany won the war our history books and opinion of him would be rather different.

Sometimes simplifying complex issues into good and evil just doesn't work.

Hitler was just another puppet.

God is considered to be a genocidal maniac because narratively speaking, he was in a position of absolute knowledge and absolute ability. His advantages gave him the tools and strategies to effortlessly solve world crises without shedding a single drop of blood, but he made a deliberate choice to be sadistic and violent and petty on dozens of occasions. No amount of minimizing changes that. In the comics Doctor Manhattan left Earth and abandoned his Messiah role in society because he realized that there was no interfering with humanity "for the greater good" without directly impeding our free will and violating our human rights the way OT sky wizard did for many years. That is the natural conclusion of any would-be savior attempting to course-correct our civilization, the ultimate choice is between their vision of utopia and our autonomy. You can't have both. Hence the chapter of Revelations which explicitly describes the arrival of a conquering force that destroys borders and usurps leaders and builds a new kingdom on top of the world we know today, costing the human race approximately 3+ billion lives in the process.

Kind of makes Hitler look like a schoolyard bully when you think about it.

Excellent post!!
The only truth is God's truth.

a reply to: ketsuko

taking out Hitler would likely be a spectacularly bad idea. chances are things would have ended up far, far worse.

taking him out during the war, could have led to a German victory. if anything Hitler was a major impediment to the German war effort. the longer the war went, the more he interfered, and many of his decisions cost the Germans dearly. and that even goes beyond the tactical decisions he made. he also was a hindrance in both war material production, and even worse, research and development. like his penchant for "bigger is better", and "wonder weapons". or his dealing with the development of the jet. at first stalling the development of the jet, as not needed, and wouldn't be ready in time to be of help (which he actually caused). the fact is if it hadn't been for Hitler, chances are they would have had jets much earlier and in far greater numbers and types. even when jets became available, his insistence of using them as bombers instead of fighters cost the Germans dearly. taking him out would quite likely have put someone who was actually competent, or at least listened to others in charge. why do you think his own side was trying to kill him?

taking him out after gaining power, but before the war, likely would have been even worse. just add onto the above that someone else likely would have not started the war so soon, and before they were ready. all it would have taken is backing down over Poland. or even not immediately starting the Battle of Britain immediately after taking out France. or at the very least able to use better tactics in the battle of Britain. or even not attacking Russia quite so soon. seriously Hitler did more for the Allies then they did for themselves in many cases.

taking Hitler out before he was even involved in what was to become the Nazi party would have been bad. he didn't start the party. all he really was, was an effective mouthpiece. i severely even doubt that he had all that much to do with picking the Swastika as the main symbol. i have never heard anything really convincing that he was really into the paranormal, symbols of power, the supernatural or any of that stuff in a big way. although there were a lot of Nazi party members that were into such things big time (like a lot of the world was at that point in time). even his hatred of Jews was not him alone. again something shared among many in Europe and even in the US at the time, including among many Nazi party members. so chances are even without him, the holocaust likely would have still happened.

WW2 was going to happen, with or without Hitler or the Nazi party. it was being planned almost as soon as the Treaty of Versailles was signed. in fact the Nazis and Hitler profited greatly in WW2 from all that planning and work to improve the German military, and war plans, before the Nazis gained power. the war was all but guaranteed to happen.

in fact if without Hitler the Nazis didn't gain power, the result likely would have been far worse. we likely would have had a communist Germany, one backed by communist Russia. since it was the Nazis who did a lot to stop the communists, especially going toe to toe against ANTIFA. and with Russia fully backing Germany the war would have been quite different, and likely the Allies loosing quickly and badly, leaving at the very least a communist Europe, plus likely a communist middle east, and likely even Canada and all the rest of European colonies. even possibly a communist world. so severe would have been the difference in power balance, without Hitler and the Nazis.

a reply to: cooperton

This is equally applicable to so many politicians, presidents, prime ministers and their globalist puppet masters today. Rather than examine a hypothetical situation, it seems to me that our present situation requires some serious applications of chlorine for the gene pool.

There is just the question of whether to lead or follow when SHTF.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: TzarChasm
God is considered to be a genocidal maniac because narratively speaking, he was in a position of absolute knowledge and absolute ability. His advantages gave him the tools and strategies to effortlessly solve world crises without shedding a single drop of blood, but he made a deliberate choice to be sadistic and violent and petty on dozens of occasions. No amount of minimizing changes that. In the comics Doctor Manhattan left Earth and abandoned his Messiah role in society because he realized that there was no interfering with humanity "for the greater good" without directly impeding our free will and violating our human rights the way OT sky wizard did for many years. That is the natural conclusion of any would-be savior attempting to course-correct our civilization, the ultimate choice is between their vision of utopia and our autonomy. You can't have both. Hence the chapter of Revelations which explicitly describes the arrival of a conquering force that destroys borders and usurps leaders and builds a new kingdom on top of the world we know today, costing the human race approximately 3+ billion lives in the process.

Kind of makes Hitler look like a schoolyard bully when you think about it.

If an inexpicable force had the potential to wipe-out most of the earth, this same force would also have better foreknowledge than humans. Why do you assume this interference was for the worse? How do you know if someone dying is good or bad?

originally posted by: Grenade


Sometimes simplifying complex issues into good and evil just doesn't work.

Yeah especially from a temporally limited perspective. For all we know global utopia could have ensued if the Nazis won the war.

a reply to: cooperton

You wouldn't be able to kill Hitler if you traveled back in time because what happened was God's will.

Everything happens for a reason, right?


Right.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: cooperton

You wouldn't be able to kill Hitler if you traveled back in time because what happened was God's will.

Everything happens for a reason, right?


Right.

I agree. For this reason, skepticism about major events that are apparent divine intervention were undoubtedly for the best of overall humanity. If a being has the power to do such major miraculous alterations to various events, it most definitely has better foresight about the results of its alterations.