Boeing Screws Up Again

The capsule has been destacked and will be returned to the factory. The remaining four valves will have to undergo deeper repair, possibly including replacing wiring and other related systems. It's suspected that the high humidity of Florida caused moisture to get into the system and cause the problems, but no external corrosion was found. The delay puts the Commercial Crew Program on indefinite hold.

a reply to: Zaphod58

In the mean time SPACE X marches on

Most of the brains have gone to SpaceX. Boeing is suffering. A product of the past with wannabe technicians. It explains why Boeing screwed up so many times during the last period of time. Hope this company will bring back its success it used to have in the past.

a reply to: james00

Boeing has been a joke since their reverse merger with McDonnell- Douglas. That put the bean counters in charge and pushed the engineers out. Ever since then everything new that they've done has been laughable.

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's humid in Florida? Who'd've thunk it!?

Indefinite hold sounds worse than I had read. I saw a most likely NET of February, mostly due to ULA launch cadence and other commitments. Optimistic planning has it for November, sandwiched between Lucy and STP-3, but with the unannounced date of USSF-08 it's hard to do anything beyond speculate.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

Word going around was that if they had to destack, they'd lose the rocket, which means it's going to be a long time before they can try again.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh wow. This is incredibly bad for Boeing. Thank you for the update.

I think it is time to give the Dream Chaser from Sierra Nevada a chance since the Starliner is proving itself to be a lemon.

The cultural change of Boeing is disheartening, when they were great they were ran by engineers, that merger changed everything.

This is a great clip explaining how Boeing got where they are now:

a reply to: firerescue

The Dream Chaser could also be fitted for a SpaceX Falcon 9, especially now that larger fairing is being made. The Vulcan should be flying next year finding a rocket for the Dream Chaser is not an issue, however if I recall correctly they are building some extra Atlas Vs because of the delay.

The RD-180 is a great engine, best of all time. The Raptor that SpaceX is developing will likely be the new king.

Even though Blue Origin is struggling to deliver engines to the Vulcan, it is nowhere near the setback we are seeing with Starliner.

The BE-4 engines use methane which is still novel for rocket engines and creates a bunch of extra engineering and technical challenges. It will likely be the first operational methane powered rocket engine, though it looks like SpaceX's Raptor which also uses methane will beat it to orbit with a Starship test flight, I do think Vulcan will be operational before Starship is.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Lose as in scrap or just put towards another launch? I can't see it being scrapped (or why), and there's nothing else that would be ready to fly that doesn't already have an Atlas for it.

Scrapped rocket would pretty much be a big coffin nail for Starliner. Only other viable launch option would be Falcon, and that won't happen.

a reply to: jrod

Dream Chaser starts its CRS missions in 2022. Seems far off, but will be here before we know it. A crew version is still in the pipeline, but they haven't given any official development timeline.

Even worse is it's slated to fly on Vulcan, which has its own slue of developmental issues going on at Blue Origin with the BE-4 engines.

a reply to: cmdrkeenkid

I find it amazing that Bezos has been trying to sue to get a piece of the moon lander contract when his company is 4 years behind on an engine delivery.

I was excited about Blue Origin's New Glenn and their BE-4 engines, however after being unable to deliver I am starting to question if Blue Origin will ever be a reputable space program. I will make it to the Cape for the New Glenn's maiden flight (assuming it dies not get canned).

That said, I would currently trust Blue Origin over Boeing. It just seems like one thing after another goes wrong with Boeing projects today. There is also little incentive for Boeing to deliver on time and on budget because they have managed to still get tax payer money thanks to their lobbying ability.

For these crewed missions, SpaceX was awarded $2.5 billion while Boeing was awarded $4.3 billion then Boeing lobbyed to get another $300 million added.

Boeing got almost twice as much(perhaps more as the $300 million was noticed in a 2019 audit) and has yet to dock with the ISS. SpaceX has flown 4 missions, with the first being unmanned and has brought 10 astronauts to the ISS. The cost per seat is also much more for Boeing at $90million vs $50million from SpaceX; Russia charges the US $80million per seat.

Almost $5 billion spent and still not an operational vehicle. It is a shame that the contract was not at least partially dependent on the delivery of a final product. NASA wants to get something for the all the $$$ awarded Boeing, at hopefully they will. I do have some concerns about the safety for the crew of Starliner.

a reply to: jrod

Aside from SpaceX docking the four Crew Dragon missions they've had 22 successful CRS missions (and two more before year's end) to the ISS. Even in that alone they have mountains more experience than either Boeing or BO in regards to this. The only other company close to SpaceX in ISS experience is Orbital Sciences*, but they have fewer flights flown using a non-reusable capsule that can't dock itself.

I still have confidence that BO will be reputable. They have had great success with New Shepard. They just have a very different approach to R&D and publicity than SpaceX, which leaves pretty much everyone outside the company in the dark. I think they'll eventually roll out working BE-4 engines, but at this point I wouldn't be shocked if Tory Bruno at ULA is quietly backending other options.

See you if you make it down here. I go to most launches I can. Been to more scrubs to actual flights, so I may be cursed. At the very worst I still get a day at the beach by Patrick SFB, so it's a curse I'm willing to live with.

ETA:

*Domestic company. No one has ISS experience remotely close to Roscosmos.

a reply to: jrod

Space Cadet Bezos has decided to sue NASA in order to get a piece of the HLS (Human Landing System)

Nasa had awarded SPACE X a 2.9 billion contract to build the HLS , other bidders were National Team (Blue Origin, ULA, Northrup Grumman) which bid 6 billion and Dyanetics which bid 10 billion

Since then Bezos has gone on a rant about SPACE X and NASA were screwing him out of the contract

Both Blue Origin and Dyanetics filed protests with GAO , After investigating GAO upheld the SPACE X award

Space Cadet Bezos also went to Senator Maria Cantwell, who inserted a provision in bill, that NASA should made a
second award

NASA pointed out while would have liked to award contract to 2 nd bidder, Congress has not come up with money

Bezos still smarting with a massive butt hurt after losing has lashed out against Space X , behaving more like a spoiled child than a CEO of major space company

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: jrod
Bezos still smarting with a massive butt hurt after losing has lashed out against Space X , behaving more like a spoiled child than a CEO of major space company

This is exactly what it is. It's not about money. The BO lander program at $6B was nearly double the SpaceX bid. He shouldn't be shocked to have lost on that alone.

However, by protesting it also delays SpaceX receiving any funds and commencing on work. That's the ultimate goal of his right now in regards to HLS, in my opinion.