Is the woke movement another form of control and suppression.

originally posted by: Hecate666
I think the best way to decide if it is political or a fad is to see how these ideas are used by those that govern.
It all starts with good intentions.
The hippies made free love and took drugs because, why not? It didn't make sense not to do this. Depending on doing it moderately, like everything else in life.
However most people I knwo of that age group are just old normal people. With very few still being kind of wild.

Nowadays the good intention was to include those they 'felt' were not represented enough [which may well be true] and those that got bullied for their need to dress up like the opposite gender.
This now has escalated to accepting all men in dresses as women to the detriment of women. As seen in sports or women only spaces. Thats' not cool.

Furthermore now you get fined or even arrested for not playing this silly game. Hence it's not right. You can't stop others from being bullied and then go and bully the majority.

You can't hire people just because their skin has a certain hue, rather than hire by merit.

You can't force women into roles in movies that no women is actually interested in. Yeah I know some women like action movies but lets face it, it's mostly men that enjoy explosions, chases and shoot outs. If you stick women in the main role, that doesn't make it more interesting, it just drives the men away, unless the ladies in question show a bit of cleavage.
But that would be sexist. So you get an ugly broad playing a man's role in a film for men.

I don't knwo if it is political but it sure is dumb and unnatural as hell.

We can accept and not bully men in dresses without having to agree with their sentiment. We can accept women without making them fight like a 7 foot tall boxer, we can hire competent black people without having to hire duds just because their hue is right.

If we can't, then we are literally not adult enough as a species.

Couldn't have written it better! It has gone way too far. We are all living under an oppressive system that pigeon holes people and outright abuses some so it isn't surprising that people rise up and demand inclusion and respect but this is the first time the movement seems to be embraced by the government. That in itself is suspicious to me as I feel "woke" concepts have merit at their root but without some serious enforcement behind the scenes the ideas would be left in the dust with little improvement to average folk's lives. Past governments, all parties represented that in opposition to the people's movements such as the hippies, war protesters, women's rights.

The sad thing is this seems fit to create division only, especially oddities like burly biological males giving natural women a beat down in sports. That is truly counter to women's rights and freedoms, yet many people can't see this due to the propaganda. I want men to be free to wear whatever, skirts if they like, and be safe for it. I want them to feel safe to evolve and express their feminine nature... but not at the expense of natural women. Most people probably feel this too yet when pushed to far we are forced to pick a side and this will then be exploited to divide society.

As a young girl I was horrified that women had just recently gained rights and even status as human beings. That's a heavy on a growing self esteem. Never thought I'd be horrified in middle age to learn that men make better women than women but after fifty years on a misogynist planet I shouldn't be surprised. This isn't a homegrown issue that will swing back like a pendulum in time. The wokeness is a weapon.

a reply to: everyone

That video starts out by saying that Bernays believed that most people are ''mindless and dumb ''and that only a ''select few''can really think and the rest can just be led around by the nose.

Taking Bernays as an isolated ''jerk'' or as a ''master of deception and lies'' does not serve us well by placing blame on him for the foul work he did over his years. Simply because he put his belief system into practice and guess what.

IT WORKED

and it

CONTINUES TO TO WORK

We can see it if we try. It comes at us from both sides of the political isle and from every corner of our economic structures.

Our culture has raised up three generations of young people who ever increasingly want to be ''stars''. Entertainers. Movie actors rock stars, runway models, country music legions.

Thousands and thousands of most often ''good looking'' young people getting a touch of fame and fortune in the entertainment industry until the next generation pushes them out of their ''slot'' on a sit com or their '' supporting role'' in a cop drama and their income dries up. And guess what...

There's Madison Avenue waiting for them, offering them commercial spokesman jobs hawking products. Why? Because those people that Bernays thought were ''mindless and dumb'' will see a familiar face of a celebrity and feel the warmth of familiarity and give them trust......

IT WORKS

a reply to: andy06shake

"If we can't, then we are literally not adult enough as a species."

I picked up on that sentence as well.

We are babies that take huffs and chuck our toys out the pram with access big red buttons that can launch atomics from one side of the planet to the other.

We need to grow up. Grow up and do it quickly I think. Because the crap we are throwing out of our prams is piling up more quickly than we might ever be capable of cleaning up.

a reply to: BatSars

To be honest, I don't think the 'woke' thing is any type of centralized 'thing'. I believe this is just the progression of society, as it always does with each new (or every other new) generation.

I began to learn this through music. My teen years were the years of the Beach Boys and the Beatles. My father could not get either one of them, let alone James Brown. He was pretty much stuck in the Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller generation. That generations music is what I was raised on before my teen years and I loved it. Still do.

But then I learned that his generations music was fought by the previous generation that wanted to keep hearing dixieland and ragtime from the 1890s and 1920s. And few of them, ragtime listeners or dixieland listeners or big band listeners wanted to listen to classical,'' long hair'' music at all.

I was fortunate as I played clarinet well into college. I played dixieland clarinet and classical clarinet and big band clarinet. So I was prepared to span those generational chasms.

Later in life in my work place my eclectic appreciation of music was mostly frowned upon by my co workers. They for the most part were ten to fifteen year my junior and their favorite music, mostly the ONLY music they could appreciate was music from the mid 70s to the early 80s.

I came to believe that for most people the music they can appreciate is the music of their early adult years, their coming of age years when their worlds are expanding and the music they listen to are anthems for that growth period.

I think that that holds up pretty well with the larger picture you were drawing. Rap for instance, met a lot of resistance as ''crap''. But once the market showed a glimmer that it could be a money maker, in zoomed the major music houses and it was pushed up into the mainstream.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: andy06shake

The thing I find most interesting about Bernays is his heritage.

Freud was groundbreaking. The field of psychology was new, and the practices that sprang from it took a while to become practical in the real world. Bernays was early in that process. He heard and learned about psychology very young.

Freud was a double uncle. That is Freud' was brother to Bernays mother and Freud's wife was sister to Bernays father.
I never studied further into that but I can only imagine that little Eddie's education he was getting at home was far in advance of almost every other child of his generation.

This is true and a fact i learned only last year. Interesting how this is not ever highlighted as much.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: everyone

That video starts out by saying that Bernays believed that most people are ''mindless and dumb ''and that only a ''select few''can really think and the rest can just be led around by the nose.

Taking Bernays as an isolated ''jerk'' or as a ''master of deception and lies'' does not serve us well by placing blame on him for the foul work he did over his years. Simply because he put his belief system into practice and guess what.

IT WORKED

and it

CONTINUES TO TO WORK

We can see it if we try. It comes at us from both sides of the political isle and from every corner of our economic structures.

Our culture has raised up three generations of young people who ever increasingly want to be ''stars''. Entertainers. Movie actors rock stars, runway models, country music legions.

Thousands and thousands of most often ''good looking'' young people getting a touch of fame and fortune in the entertainment industry until the next generation pushes them out of their ''slot'' on a sit com or their '' supporting role'' in a cop drama and their income dries up. And guess what...

There's Madison Avenue waiting for them, offering them commercial spokesman jobs hawking products. Why? Because those people that Bernays thought were ''mindless and dumb'' will see a familiar face of a celebrity and feel the warmth of familiarity and give them trust......

IT WORKS

The problem with Bernays and his created methods are obvious. more so the consequences of it as it has been used since and perfected. We can see that with current woke culture. It is created based on his system.

Taking Bernays as an isolated ''jerk'' or as a ''master of deception and lies'' does not serve us well by placing blame on him for the foul work he did over his years. Simply because he put his belief system into practice and guess what.

IT WORKED

and it

CONTINUES TO TO WORK

Hitler was no different in that sense. Of course we can blame them for it. They both have done a lot of damage to society if you ask me.

a reply to: everyone

Hitler was no different in that sense. Of course we can blame them for it. They both have done a lot of damage to society if you ask me.

We certainly can. However stopping short and letting it end there again serves us no purpose other than blame.
When I was taught about HItler, it was generally taught that he was an isolated character. Same with Mussolini. Their partnership was kind of a throwback to an earlier age of despots, of kings and emperors like. But bad ones.

And while that is true to a degree, more, I think they were products of the times. Brutes yes, but brutes that achieved singular power because the social conditions of those times and places allowed those systems of totalitarian fascism to arise. Hitler was not alone, he had a ready and willing cadre of ''underbosses'' some of which, had it not been him that became the face of fascism, would have themselves.

And in a great way, I see it just like Bernays. Bernays can be pointed to as a focal point of the birth of advertising, but in reality he was only one, granted one of the most successful, who were putting those tools of manipulation into practice at that time. And from then on out it has only gotten more prevalent. Now we can see almost everybody trying to sell product and ideas to those who are believed to be of that lower class of ''non-thinkers.''

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

"Woe to you, my princess, when I come. I will kiss you quite red and feed you till you are plump. And if you are forward you shall see who is the stronger, a gentle little girl who doesn’t eat enough or a big wild man who has coc aine in his body,” wrote Sigmund Freud to his future wife, Martha Bernays, on June 2, 1884.

On February 2, 1886, toward the end of another letter to Bernays, Freud wrote, “Here I am, making silly confessions to you, my sweet darling, and really without any reason whatever unless it is the coc aine that makes me talk so much.” The two married later that year."

I know he liked his narcotics and was not averse to pouring his heart and feeling's out to Martha on the gear nether or so it would seem.

a reply to: BatSars

It is certainly true that it is a running theme between generations. Similarly, younger generations waste substantial amounts of time "reinventing the wheel," as they discover the divide between their ideals and the real world. Occasionally this can even result in genuine innovation.

This is likely exacerbated by the speed of technological advancement coupled with instant communication. The younger generations are about as likely to really understand how any of the tech works as older generations, they might just be more comfortable interfacing with them. There was a relatively brief time period where this wasnt accurate though, when using electronics and computers frequently required a level of knowledge of the code or hardware itself.

However, history obviously shows us that this actually can go horrifically wrong and sometimes those criticisms from older generations are under estimating the issue due to the exact normalcy bias you describe.

All that needs to occur is to convince meaningful portions of the population of two things 1) that the reason their ideals are difficult to achieve in the real world is because of "them." 2) that those doing the convincing are the solution.

The only part that really changes is the scale it is possible to accomplish this, but otherwise is a cycle repeated ad nauseum throughout history.

Sometimes its driven by the manipulation of the arrogance, ignorance, narcissism, and naivete inherent to youth. Sometimes simply controlled information, and sometimes simply whipping up peoples zealotry. The end results are pretty much the same though. Whether or not we are at that stage of the cycle here and now is one thing, but it absolutely, unquestioningly, certainly will happen again and the scale will be transnational or global.

When we introduce the concept that we built a world where younger generations are brought up to be addicted to extreme emotions and define their reality through a digital filter, I think there are serious concerns there that rise beyond mere generation gaps. And when we include that many are convinced that all their ideals will be realized and problems solved merely by supporting certain groups/organizations and rejecting and demonizing all who oppose their Authority, backed by Institutional Power.. Well.. Thats very quickly treading ground that should raise warning flags for everyone.

a reply to: andy06shake


Holy crappolla Batman. Man, that verbal foreplay is some pretty hefty stuff right there, make a gal quiver in her girdle.

The whole field of psychology is a ripe nut to swallow.

I've studied it a bit, had a couple of college courses, read a few more books along the way, had some counseling in the past myself. It can help a person in their lives to overcome so many blocks in our psyches.

I recall a period when many conservative folk just poo pooed it as fancy schmancy liberal mind games. That made me sad because for one thing they would never allow themselves the benefits of it's scholarship but more because they would not know how they were being played, by the very system they upheld. Not of course that those of liberal persuasion were immune.

But there was this general impression that psychology was presented as a ''good'' thing to the public overall. ''We can understand ourselves better kinda stuff. When it really began to come to public awareness it was portrayed in movies of the 20s and 30s as the ''new'' thing among elites and stuff. Then of course there were those husbands in sitcoms that were advertising executives like in Bewitched and The Dick Van Dyke Show portraying them as nice guys who wouldn't harm a fly.

But for all the value the whole field might have for individuals to utilize the overall effect it has had has been on repression of the masses, just as Bernays used it. Machiavellian scheming taken to much deeper levels than the old prince might have imagined.

a reply to: Serdgiam

And when we include that many are convinced that all their ideals will be realized and problems solved merely by supporting certain groups/organizations and rejecting and demonizing all who oppose their Authority, backed by Institutional Power.. Well.. Thats very quickly treading ground that should raise warning flags for everyone.

I think that those warning flags are being noticed more and more. But from my point of view our problem no lays in that those who see them waving simply point in the other direction with the belief that it is ''those guys'' who are being duped.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I definitely agree that that is a problem to stack on the proverbial pile.

Those who want "everything" to change are, by far, the easiest to effectively manipulate. However, if you can get those who disagree with it to effectively box shadows, it removes any weight that the general population might be able to impart in diverting the momentum towards beneficial (or at least benign) directions.

This results in a scenario where everyone is fighting against archetypes. Archetypes with digtal avatars, at that, and less direct social interaction than any other point in human history.

The only ones actually building the things that will shape the future are those that control vast resources, information, institutions, etc. These folks currently have the explicit support of the group(s) that want everything to change, and under examination, bear significant markers of a genuine non-theistic religion.

That said, there are also individuals, and small groups of individuals that are attempting to build those things outside of that paradigm as well. However, they (we) are not seen to support one side or the other enough, and receive very little support or ability to impart momentum on a meaningful level.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Archetypes with digtal avatars, at that, and less direct social interaction than any other point in human history.

I can only speak to this through speculation and my own experiences here. I often struggle to NOT relate to what I might hold as archetypes that I come across on these pages. It ain't easy. I can only imagine how many younger than I and possibly not as wise might be handling it. I know though that way more than I would wish it I can see that many folk here simply relate to my posts in that manner, as being simple archetypal nonsense to them. Alas

''Wise'' there might not be the best word but with a bit of patience, it works well enough I hope.

I’m of the mind it’s a distraction for black American’s from the virus.


It’s also a distraction for White people but not in the same way.

None of it is designed to actually help black Americans.

Why?

Well, explain what Dem policies are actually helping black Americans towards a safe, prosperous, sustainable future.

Answer - few to zero.

a reply to: robsmith

Short answer; yes.

Long answer depends on who you talk to. Because what it HAS been doing is not just reversed racism. It's also been restricting things like music, and sport scholarships that are primarily one color.

With sports scholarships being tailored more towards African Americans.

A lot of this is pushed as (racism) excuses to get rid of certain classes in highschool and lower that is just a waste of money(restricting it to the wealthy only). Everything from swim team(primarily white with few Mexicans) to music. Which cost a lot of money to maintain.

When you think on a grand scale, most of this movement has been nothing but separating the rich from the not rich activity and benefit wise.

When you get rid of sports, music, art, etc. You wind up with less creative students.

When you stop supporting those artsy scholarships more people can't afford college.


The movement has done way more harm then good, including removing competition by holding back "advanced" students because a handful want to skip class and joke around instead..

Uniqueness, and individuality in children is completely unsupported, in fact it's frowned upon if a student excels in anything over another. So this is going to dumb down kids even more.

I can go on and on about the examples. But we have a handful of children now growing up in a world where they believe they are evil. Where parents are afraid of newborn babies because they are "racist and evil".

I kid you not.. so yes, it is about absolute control. Because it boils down to those people who believe it will no longer have children.. which supports a huge conspiracy of depopulation.

Hope that helps answer your question. There is millions of more examples.. but all you have to do is open your eyes and see what is really happening.