Drug abuse is not a disease it is bad life decisions

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: panoz77
Why did you choose to stop smoking?
What made you choose to start again?

I was laid off from work and didn't want to spend $7 a day on cigs, so I stopped. When I started again on a big project, I started to smoke again because I didn't feel bad about spending the money and I enjoy it knowing full well that is is not a healthy choice.

a reply to: panoz77

You intentionally choose to participate in an activity you know to be harmful because you like it...

That is addiction in a nutshell.

Why do you like it if you know it is harmful to you? Could it be the endorphins released into your bloodstream when you satiate your need for nicotine? That is how addiction works. Its not just the drug that makes an addict feel good, its the body's reaction to getting what it craves. That is why things besides mood altering substances can be addictions. They are mood altering, just not in the same way.

Have you ever heard of an adrenaline junky? Once again, its an addiction, hence the term junky. The activity is dangerous which produces endorphins and adrenaline which the person gets addicted to.

The definition of the word disease is clear. I choose not to redefine words to suit my narrative.

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: panoz77
Why did you choose to stop smoking?
What made you choose to start again?

I was laid off from work and didn't want to spend $7 a day on cigs, so I stopped. When I started again on a big project, I started to smoke again because I didn't feel bad about spending the money and I enjoy it knowing full well that is is not a healthy choice.

Now, two more privately funded studies have shown the opposite of what all the studies by Phillips Morris and RJ Reynolds cmhave concluded. You only need decide whom to believe, Morris and Reynolds that vaping will give 90% of users deadly cancer, or the privately funded or University studies, that they cannot find even one single carcenogen in the body or any negative reactions in the body of vaping people besides a slightly elevated heart rate decidedly saying caffeine and nicotine are nearly identical in side effects, nicotine just being slightly more addictive (while the super addiction and the serious health problems of smoking come from the other 200 additives like cyanide, strychnine, and most of all....TAR). Nearly the same as caffeine you intake with pure old water vapor has no mechanism of action to introduce carcenogens to the body or cause dibilitating disease is the little guys explanation while the government and big tobacco funded answer is of course, not forthcoming regarding how water causes these issues. Just crickets.

I got the very first electric cigarette ever made I believe when there was no alternative. It cost me $350 dollars in about 2004-5 and though it took a good day and a half to get used to the at first somewhat unpleasant tickle or choke in the back of the throat, by 48 hours it was just a cool vapor that felt identical going down as a cigarette. And I was glad I pushed through it. I was a helpless smoker and was just too uncomfortable, preoccupied in thought, and stressed out in life to ever get through day two or three when I tried quitting with him, patch, whatever you name it. I never fell back on a single cigarette and eventually was lightheaded by the 5mg cartridge and had to go 2.5 then 1 and eventually I just smoked flavored watervapor. That was all when not a soul I ever crossed paths with had any clue what I was doing, would think it a magic trick, and was blown away and would stop me everywhere I went. I am so glad in hindsight to have done it before today's vape culture since kids got ahold of it and just like this stupid generation and their enemaing and condoning alcohol into their anuses and vaginas together at parties, they made the ecig and vape thing all pop cultural and flashy to show it off and within no time went to electric vape machines that give you a cigarette a hit, then to a pack a hit, and now the standard way the young people do it is a drip kit where you intake the nicotine of an entire carton of cigarettes in just one or two concentrated hits. Worthless morons. And so I can imagine it must not be an appealing option nowadays but anyone who wants to quit AT ALL...it may take two or three purchases to find one that feels right to use but if you have my experience and I was a lost cause...it is a guaranteed way either to quit entirely or simply to move to a method which feels the same, tastes better, and literally takes the health disaster from 100mph to a complete standstill...unless you buy the crap big tobacco is trying to pass us. Like water being a serious carcenogen it turns out. Whoa, surprising and not surprising at all

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: panoz77

You intentionally choose to participate in an activity you know to be harmful because you like it...
That is addiction in a nutshell.

Choosing to start is just not the same thing as being unable to stop. And that's all about willpower and circumstances. Read the studies done on US military guys who came back home after being on heroin in Vietnam. Except for a small percentage of people who decided to keep doing it, the vast majority just gave it up and never looked back. Possibly one of the most "addictive" substances there is. So what does that tell you?

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: panoz77

You intentionally choose to participate in an activity you know to be harmful because you like it...
That is addiction in a nutshell.

Choosing to start is just not the same thing as being unable to stop. And that's all about willpower and circumstances. Read the studies done on US military guys who came back home after being on heroin in Vietnam. Except for a small percentage of people who decided to keep doing it, the vast majority just gave it up and never looked back. Possibly one of the most "addictive" substances there is. So what does that tell you?

It suggests to me, your environment might play a role in what triggers use.

a reply to: panoz77

your kind of right it is a illness caused by bad choices

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: panoz77

You intentionally choose to participate in an activity you know to be harmful because you like it...
That is addiction in a nutshell.

Choosing to start is just not the same thing as being unable to stop. And that's all about willpower and circumstances. Read the studies done on US military guys who came back home after being on heroin in Vietnam. Except for a small percentage of people who decided to keep doing it, the vast majority just gave it up and never looked back. Possibly one of the most "addictive" substances there is. So what does that tell you?

Your argument is silly most in vietnam never tried heroin and those that did were already exposed to it prior to joining in most casses. They found the ones most likely to use herion after vietnam lived on the west coast. Basically easier to atain in california then say iowa. So availability becomes an issue as well there are many factors involved in an addiction including lack of money doesnt mean the person isnt an addict.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: panoz77

You intentionally choose to participate in an activity you know to be harmful because you like it...

That is addiction in a nutshell.

Why do you like it if you know it is harmful to you? Could it be the endorphins released into your bloodstream when you satiate your need for nicotine? That is how addiction works. Its not just the drug that makes an addict feel good, its the body's reaction to getting what it craves. That is why things besides mood altering substances can be addictions. They are mood altering, just not in the same way.

Have you ever heard of an adrenaline junky? Once again, its an addiction, hence the term junky. The activity is dangerous which produces endorphins and adrenaline which the person gets addicted to.

The definition of the word disease is clear. I choose not to redefine words to suit my narrative.

Addiction is not a disease, addiction is a choice and totally preventable.

a reply to: panoz77

that's been proven to be 110% not true.

addiction is genetic

people who are in a deep addiction need medical intervention and compassion, not being blamed.


trust me when I say addiction is no fun and it might start off as messing around n the weekend to addicted unnoticed by most even yourself.

even if it were 100% a choice, does that mean people don't deserve help getting back on their feet.

have a little heart for people that are really struggling

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: panoz77

that's been proven to be 110% not true.

addiction is genetic

people who are in a deep addiction need medical intervention and compassion, not being blamed.


trust me when I say addiction is no fun and it might start off as messing around n the weekend to addicted unnoticed by most even yourself.

even if it were 100% a choice, does that mean people don't deserve help getting back on their feet.

have a little heart for people that are really struggling

This thread is not about not helping people who are addicts. This thread is simply pointed out that a certain group of people who lean left, including their media helpers, want us to believe that it is not the fault of addicts that they commit crimes. They want us to belive that it is our fault, societies fault and that addicts should be excused from any culpability for their actions because they have a "disease" and that it is simply the disease they have that makes them commit crimes.

a reply to: panoz77

I have been clean for years now

I used IV drugs for a few years after I got addicted to pain pills from a really nasty accident, when they cut the pills I found out I was physically addicted and tried HH and never looked back.

I never stole anything from anyone, I never hurt anyone(besides my self) and I didn't ruin my family connection.

I know that my story isn't a normal one but not everyone who uses drugs is some sort of dangerous criminal.


I cant tell you why opiates flipped that switch in my brain but I certainly never made a choice to be an addict

the real problem with drugs is that they are illegal, if an adult wants to use substance x and it wont effect anyone but them why not let them get their drugs from the pharmacy or doctor and that way addicts don't have to resort to crimes.

methadone(opiate substitute) saved my life.

I think as a society drug addicts are very low on the list people care about, we cant arrest the drug situation away so maybe its time for an approach like Portugal or some places in the NL and the UK

I'm all for arresting criminals that cause a problem by stealing or whatever but most addict's just want a chance to get back on their feet.

ask your self a question, how many old addicts are around?

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: panoz77

I have been clean for years now

I used IV drugs for a few years after I got addicted to pain pills from a really nasty accident, when they cut the pills I found out I was physically addicted and tried HH and never looked back.

I never stole anything from anyone, I never hurt anyone(besides my self) and I didn't ruin my family connection.

I know that my story isn't a normal one but not everyone who uses drugs is some sort of dangerous criminal.


I cant tell you why opiates flipped that switch in my brain but I certainly never made a choice to be an addict

the real problem with drugs is that they are illegal, if an adult wants to use substance x and it wont effect anyone but them why not let them get their drugs from the pharmacy or doctor and that way addicts don't have to resort to crimes.

methadone(opiate substitute) saved my life.

I think as a society drug addicts are very low on the list people care about, we cant arrest the drug situation away so maybe its time for an approach like Portugal or some places in the NL and the UK

I'm all for arresting criminals that cause a problem by stealing or whatever but most addict's just want a chance to get back on their feet.

ask your self a question, how many old addicts are around?

You have a nice story, but certainly not the norm.

Most addicts are looking for their next fix, and will do virtually anything to get it. You claim you didn't make a choice, but you did. Your pills got cut off and instead of choosing to deal with the withdraw, you chose heroin.

My addiction is in my username. I can only speak for myself and share my personal opinion. Also, to be clear, I can only speak in regards to alcohol. I have no idea what other types of addictions are like, or how they effect people, mentally, in their own headspace (other than as a witness to them). For me, I could not call it a disease. Saying it was, would feel like a cop out. I absolutely know what I'm doing, when I pick up that bottle. There has always been a conscience decision made on my part. Whether it's to start drinking, or keep drinking, or thinking I have it under control. I am not embarrassed to admit these things about myself. It just is what it is, and I want to overcome it and all that good stuff. But, at least for me, while some might want to call it a disease, that doesn't change the fact that I know what I'm doing when I crack that next beer open. Calling it a disease, seems more like a scapegoat, an excuse, a problem I have no control over. But that's simply not the fact. Is it mf hard to deal with, get over, try to be better the next day then the last, be sober? Hell #ing yes it is, in my experience. That's just me being real about it. But a disease? No. IMO, diseases are things like cancer, or (heh) cirrhosis, or whatever you have little/no control over. Truth, I'm just weak at times. But this isn't the thread to keep elaborating further on my own issues.

I guess it comes down to how you define a disease. And other context.

TOOL - Sober (Sums it up pretty well - Also, the majority of AIC Dirt)

"I have been guilty of kicking myself in the teeth"

ETA: Interesting (maybe irrelevant) to note: I wasn't an alcoholic when I made my account. One day it just became a habit. I only say that, as a type of cautionary anecdote for others that like to get the buzz going. Be safe and careful! One day it could be harder than you think to put it down. In the meantime, cheers.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Choosing to start again IS not being able to stop. He/she was a smoker, stopped and is starting again. Its much more than just willpower and circumstances, though those do play a part in it.

People who do not understand addiction always say it is just willpower. If you have no willpower you are weak and likely to be an addict. Its just not that simple. We are talking about chemical response to various stimuli. There is no willpower that increases or decreases that. I don't have time to go into a lengthy dissertation on that now but feel free to investigate it yourself. I will return and expand that explanation when time permits.

a reply to: penroc3
Congratulations!!! it's been 25 yrs or so for me.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I know I am not who your response was directed at. Guess I'm getting personal on ATS tonight. Can't say I fully understand addiction. Just what I've seen from some people around me dealing/dealt with it. More hardcore things like amphetamines and/or opiates. Personally I was never into those things, so I couldn't speak from experience, only observation. My issue (maybe you saw a previous post I made and thus already know), is with the alcohol. This thread isn't AA, but I hope it's still okay to talk about my own experiences a little bit more, briefly. Because, I hear what you're saying, and you may be more knowledgeable (in all probability). My drinking habits, are all on me, my mind and will power. I choose to drink. Not really going to go into the how much and when and blah in this post because I don't know how relevant it is to the next thing.. Which is, I think, I'm at a new stage.. To the point, my body, my blood, whatever, Idk.. At some point it changed from just chasing that buzz to, in addition to chasing that buzz, my body is messed up.

I get shakes, no appetite, dry heaving in the morning. Dry heaving until I put alcohol in my body. I'm not even talking to feel a thing. Any amount, the tiniest, a nip or two and my body calms. Not even enough to get or enjoy a buzz, just to stop the wanna puke feeling. I've done some googling and ofc Ik internet diagnosis is just that. But yeah some of the stuff I'm reading and symptoms I've got.. I don't have a doctor. Haven't seen one in.. math.. mm.. twentyish years. Anyway I'm just rambling, you can probably guess why..

I'm at some point where I need to slowly cut back and stop. Willpower, as you said is a def part of it. But willpower has to be the end all be all. Regardless of chemical responses, yeah? I mean, at the end of the day, the mind behind the body is the one to decide to change or not? I am ashamed of myself because my addiction makes me feel weak. Or rather confirms it, in the regard to alcohol.

What isn't weak? Knowing I have the power to change it.

Idk. Sorry for my ramble.

ETA: The Earth is flat. /s

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What helped me quit alcohol was a device called the "Biotuner". Sends small electrical signals into the brain by just clipping on to the ear lobes. Seems to heal the brain to where it can produce it's own dopamine again. So the craving goes away.

Alcohol is a very insidious drug. Alcohol is the drug you want to get off of.

I take a 1/2 teaspoon per day of Cannabis tincture every night. Sort of like a vitamin. Nothing addictive or toxic like alcohol.

a reply to: panoz77

my doctor got arrested

I went in for my apt and there were all sorts of cops and people in suits in his office, at the time my friend had a secret addiction to H/pain killers and she saw me on like day three and told me if I sniffed a little but of this powder I would stop throwing up every 5 mins and JUST making it to the bathroom.

I did make the choice to try it but I was trying to relive symptoms I had ZERO help from and by that point on day three I was ready to try anything to make it go away, its one of those things that unless you you have felt its hard to understand the desperation to make it stop.


most people who cold turkey opiate addiction don't make it past 72 hours, if medical intervention is needed than it is a medical problem and should be kept there and not in jails(unless you did something other than use).

at the end of the day it is between me and my doctor what I put in my body, not the cops, not my family(for the most part) and not for anyone else.

at some point that choice gets taken away and replaced with a physicals need for opiates and that's when your trapped, without help that is.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

the disease is the fact you know what your doing is wrong but cant stop yourself knowing the consequences.

and I think people hear disease and think of something that is curable like a virus when they should think more along the line of a mental illness like depression or whatever, addiction is a life long condition(a better word?).



addiction is sickness of the soul for lack of a better word, every single addict I have meet including myself was never really happy when they were using, just surviving.

a reply to: penroc3

Thank you for your response.

a reply to: Doctor Smith

And thank you for yours as well, Doc.