Drug abuse is not a disease it is bad life decisions

a reply to: ketsuko

He observed that most of the greatest artists and poets were very tortured souls. Suffering makes for great art because you know the depths of pain. I'm sure Kurt Cobain might agree.

Yes, but I'd go further and say even founders of startups, many CEOs, and other top performers. A lot of artists will use their art as an outlet for their pain. The creativity that comes from questioning the fabric of your reality will beat that of someone with a calm life more times than not. It also resonates with the people consuming the art, it speaks to them.

The type As of the world I think it manifests differently. They've got a chip on their shoulder or are running from something. Staying busy all the time is the same as someone using drugs to check out.

This isn't to say all artists and CEO's are in the groups I've listed, but they occur enough to be measured.

So let's look at what's going on it today's society where the move is on to attempt to insulate everyone from any type of pain and adversity that we can.

There will be a forced reconciliation of this sometime soon I think. I also believe it's going to be accelerated by us losing more natural outlets or changing our lives in dramatic ways. The lesser focus on the family unit, garbage food that we have no connection to, and weakening relationships with people other than family members by the technology presented as an illusion to connectivity.

But as you said, we also have the problem of running from pain, speaking pleasure instead of passion, and hiding from things we disagree with.

How do you get great people with well formed characters if we never experience any strife of any type at all?

We'll be in a drought on this front. Tribalism has replaced individualism, so people are going to either join populism, or keep their heads down.

Somewhere or sometime will become competitive again though and reward those who are brazen... I hope.

originally posted by: RAY1990

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: panoz77
Calling drug addiction a disease is a cop out. It is a coping mechanism for addicts. I'm just sick, I can't help it, I have disease. This "disease" can be cured by simply not ingesting drugs. Amazing!

I understand, that you don't understand, some people are clearly genetically prewired for addiction..this is irrefutable. I would agree though..it starts with a choice.

Some people are predisposed to eating too much. That is not a disease (eating too much), BUT the result of eating too much can cause diseases, like heart disease and diabetes. See how that works?

So I guess anorexia is a life choice?

No, it's a mental disorder, but yeah, not a disease. Sex addition, also not a disease.

Addictions in general are not diseases. People just like to try to use that term to cope and make excuses that their addictions are beyond their control, they were just born like that. Cop out.

a reply to: Lumenari

As someone who has had some rather dark years in my life

It makes the bright times better too though, I know I personally need the contrast.

I also try to remind myself not to mope about the state of affairs. We don't get to choose the times in which we bear witness. And even if I had the choice to pick a different time line, I'd exist in that without knowledge of this one, so maybe it would feel exactly the same. It's all relative, and we only go off of what we know.

originally posted by: panoz77

Sex addition, also not a disease.

The sex addition. Interesting is that DLC or a mod?

Learn to write addiction before you start to talk about it.

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: panoz77

Sex addition, also not a disease.

The sex addition. Interesting is that DLC or a mod?

Learn to write addiction before you start to talk about it.

A dic, got it.

a reply to: panoz77

Cigarettes and coffee. My addictions.
I'm such a bad person you should kill me here and now.

originally posted by: panoz77
Addictions in general are not diseases. People just like to try to use that term to cope and make excuses that their addictions are beyond their control, they were just born like that. Cop out.

Did you know that websites and media companies have hired ex casino employees to create algos to hit people's dopamine receptors by sending them down more polarized paths? Often these paths will be discriminate or indiscriminate. Some may not have an interest in the way you think other than providing content so they capitalize, while others may have an ideological intent.

So there's all these people who take a hard line position on a wedge issue for various reasons, and get off on going further down the road. It can literally hit your dopamine receptors.

Can you see the irony that some people who speak so harshly against addiction are having the same chemical effect in their brain by doing so as someone else taking drugs?

Now, that is rhetorical, and I'm not accusing you of being in that category, it was an extreme to illustrate a point. Maybe you are, but I don't know because I don't know you. We're two randos on the internet, and for all I know you witnessed something horrible from someone else's or your own addiction, and you now have this world view because of that.

I just don't see how you could view such a nuanced issue so binary. It's almost as if the why addiction happens isn't nearly as interesting to you as the who to blame. To me, the blame is irrelevant past the fact people will use it as deflection, especially many addicts who use it as justification for their addiction, here we agree.

a reply to: panoz77

"Drug abuse is not a disease it is bad life decisions"

Addiction is the disease. Drug use is a symptom of that disease. Someone who has the disease of addiction will eventually find something/anything to abuse JMHO. We all are entitled to our own opinions just as you are entitled to yours.

As someone who has extensive personal knowledge of this subject to family members in Recovery and also having been sober 8 years, attended many drug and alcohol 28 day in patient programs I can attest to the scientific FACT that

1. Addiction is a Chronic, Progressive and Fatal Disease.

2. This has been proven true through hundreds of peer reviewed and replicated studies. There is an incredible amount of data that proves that Addiction is not a
Psychological disease but a physiological disease.

3. Will power and character has nothing to do with Addiction and the perpetuation of this myth prevents
Many people from trying to get sober and the freaking OD and die because of people that say bull#e like
“Why don’t you just quit yourself?”
“Just use your willpower”
When the addiction tries this and fails the shaming and guilt cycle continues from family and friends and the addict then begins to self shame.

You know when Someone gets cancer from smoking cigarettes their whole lives I don’t see people shaming them while they get chemo. But with addiction really makes me sad there there are people out there that have not done the research.

Please educate yourself. The American Medical Association in 1954 classified Alcoholism as a medical disease. Drugs were classified I believe in the 1960’s. There are hundreds of thousands of documented science behind this.

If you feel Addiction is not a disease please post your
Double blind placebo peer reviewed studies from REPUTABLE SCIENCE JOURNALS.

In the mean time here are some MYTHS VS. FACTS:


Myth:        Alcohol has the same chemical and psychological effects on everyone who drinks.
Reality:        Alcohol, like every other substance we take into our bodies, affects different people in different ways.
Myth:        Addiction to alcohol is often psychological.
Reality:        Addiction to alcohol is physiological and involves profound chemical disruptions in the brain.
Myth:        Alcohol is an addictive drug, and anyone who drinks regularly for a long enough period of time will become physically addicted to it.
Reality:        Alcohol is a selectively addictive drug; only a minority of drinkers will experience the need or desire to consume alcohol in sufficient quantities and over a long enough period of time to become physically addicted to it.
Myth:        People become alcoholics because they have psychological or emotional problems that they try to relieve by drinking.
Reality:        Alcoholics have basically the same psychological problems as nonalcoholics before they start drinking, but these problems are aggravated (and new disturbances are created) by addiction to alcohol.
Myth:        If people would drink responsibly, they would not become alcoholics.
Reality:        Many responsible drinkers become alcoholics. Because of the nature of the disease--not the person--they begin to drink irresponsibly.
Myth:        Some alcoholics can learn to drink normally as long as they limit the amount.
Reality:        Alcoholics, who by definition suffer from a permanent brain addiction, can never safely return to drinking.

originally posted by: panoz77
Calling drug addiction a disease is a cop out. It is a coping mechanism for addicts. I'm just sick, I can't help it, I have disease. This "disease" can be cured by simply not ingesting drugs. Amazing!

yOu HaVe jUsT cUrEd dRuG aDDiCtIoN

a reply to: Brassmonkey

I think most in this thread shared hope you can learn to handle it.
Your lecture seems very uncalled for.

a reply to: panoz77
Dis ease.

The majority of humans are not at ease with either the world or themselves.

They comfort themselves with all sorts of things.

Alcohol, drugs, shopping, gambling......you name it.

What's your teddy bear called?

Some people have more pain and agitation than others.

a reply to: Brassmonkey

When the addiction tries this and fails the shaming and guilt cycle continues from family and friends and the addict then begins to self shame.

Well if thats the case then they aren't really friends are they?
What kind of family support is shaming the addict?

I dont know of any family or friends that shamed or guilt tripped me when i was addicted. If they did i wouldn't have them near me.
Self shame? In other words drink again or take drugs again? Its wrong to call that self shaming, very wrong. Yeah one might hate themselves for drinking, but its a necessity. Same with drugs.

What people dont understand about addiction is this. Once you are addicted you must have your drug of choice everyday just to be an everyday normal person. You will not function without it. Then the addiction is physical.
I held down a lucrative job in a large printing company with a staff of 6 under me and a million pound budget. I took heroin every morning before i went to work and no one knew. I came in under budget every year. I cut costs, improved working conditions. Without heroin in the morning i wouldnt be able for all that. My body physically couldn't have coped with an 8 hour day 5 times a week.

I will also say different strokes for different folks.

a reply to: panoz77

What Does “Rat Park” Teach Us About Addiction?

There were experiments done by Dr Bruce Alexander in 1970s.......

Researchers had already proved that when rats were placed in a cage, all alone, with no other community of rats, and offered two water bottles-one filled with water and the other with heroin or coc aine-the rats would repetitively drink from the drug-laced bottles until they all overdosed and died. Like pigeons pressing a pleasure lever, they were relentless, until their bodies and brains were overcome, and they died.

Dr Bruce Alexander wondered: is this about the drug or might it be related to the setting they were in? To test his hypothesis, he put rats in “rat parks,” where they were among others and free to roam and play, to socialize and to have sex. And they were given the same access to the same two types of drug laced bottles. When inhabiting a “rat park,” they remarkably preferred the plain water.
www.psychiatrictimes.com...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If you are referring to Chauvin...i don't think you or I are either qualified to have much opinion on the facts of that case.

As the suspect was already handcuffed behind his back at the point the officer was pinning him down I think the act of pinning him down combined with the time period that act lasted for was excessive force , our police have leg restraints that are used in situations like this if a suspect starts kicking out , cuffed and with leg restraints all a suspect can do is flap about like a fish out of water , they soon get tired.

originally posted by: Halfswede
If you can take the person and drop them on an island without access their drug of choice, and that cures the "disease", it's not a disease. It's an addiction - physical or psychological or both, but not a disease. When choices can be made that eliminate the disease, its not a disease.

In no way am I downplaying the difficulty, impact, or physical dependency or damage of addiction, but it is simply not a disease. How did we get brainwashed to this level of zero personal accountability required?

I don't think that the liberals expect you to take this literally, it's a metaphor.

In my community one person starts taking drugs and they encourage other people to take them. Frequently because that person has become a dealer in order to fuel their habit. In many ways this makes it communicable just like a disease. Herpes, maybe?

Unless we tackle the reasons that people turn to drugs we are never going to be able to tackle the problem of drugs. If you lock one dealer up another will step up to replace them because dealing drugs is seen as an easy way to make money. Especially when you come form a poor community where it's incredibly difficult to get off the bread lines because of the low wage economies in these areas. Where I grew up the difference between a janitor and a manager is a couple of bucks an hour, and dealer can make more in a day that an honest person in a week. Even having a college education doesn't help much, as the wages are low even then.

Despair, hopelessness, family breakdown, a lack of community spirit, they gnaw away at you and destroy your confidence and make you vulnerable to taking drugs, and make it hard for you to get off of them once you're hooked. Even people who get clean can be swallowed up again.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

If you are referring to Chauvin...i don't think you or I are either qualified to have much opinion on the facts of that case.

As the suspect was already handcuffed behind his back at the point the officer was pinning him down I think the act of pinning him down combined with the time period that act lasted for was excessive force , our police have leg restraints that are used in situations like this if a suspect starts kicking out , cuffed and with leg restraints all a suspect can do is flap about like a fish out of water , they soon get tired.

In most of the western world, the gap between Floyd stopping moving and the EMT being called would have been enough to get Chauvin a slam dunk manslaughter conviction at the very least. That's just how it is in other countries. Qualified immunity ends if a suspect gets into difficulty and the cop does nothing to help them.

If a criminal falls into a river while running form the police, that's on them. If the criminal starts to drown and the cop doesn't lift a finger to help, then that ones on the cop.

a reply to: gortex
a reply to: AaarghZombies
Can everyone stop thread drifting please?


Is drug abuse a disease or is it just bad life choices?

originally posted by: panoz77
The MSM narrative, in an effort to undermine that george floyd was a drug addict, claiming that drug abuse is simply a disease that you "catch". That we should have sympathy for drug abusers, they are just sick. It has nothing to do with poor life decisions, or self gratification, or greed, or selfishness, or personal irresponsibility. They want us to believe that poor george was just a sick, claustrophobic, well mannered, upstanding citizen who just happened to be sick. It was not his fault that he did drugs, he was not a bad person because he took and dealt drugs or passed fake money or resisted arrest every time he had an encounter with police. Those were just because he had a sickness and nobody helped him. In fact it was our fault, societies fault that george was committing these petty crimes. We all are at fault because poor george eventually overdosed on his sickness.

That is all. Don't do drugs kids.

What a wonderful example of how the language used affects the conversation. The left goes on about how words are weapons, they are telling us their method!