Racism and the Uncanny Valley?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Yes people are born racist, ALL people are born racist against the race of those who did not care for them when they were young.

Everyone is born with the tendency to be racist, it is a basic survival instinct. It is innate to bond with those who care for you as an infant. Then to see "strangers" not like those who cared for you as an infant as "others" and to be wary of them.

This was an important part of survival for not just humans but most animals and people are animals in that regard. It is an inborn genetic trait to identify strongly with those who care for you when young and to be wary of those clearly different from those who cared for you when young.

When one is "wary" of and doesn't fully trust "others" until you get to know them, that is racism if the other has several physical characteristics that mean even the young can tell the people are different from those in the group that raised them.

People CAN overcome this with healthy and extended interactions with "others" and with healthy teaching about "others". But racism is inborn.

I taught Human Growth and Development in University until I retired.

I am super-antiracist : which means I KNOW that every race can be racist against "others"; I KNOW that racism is universal and universally evil if people are not taught to trust "others" and are exposed in a healthy way to "others"; I know that racism left unchecked can lead ANY and ALL races to commit slavery, genocide, and all manner of evil things.

I have seen clear racism against Turks in Germany in the 1980's
I have seen clear racism against whites in Japan and Asian cultures in both the 1970's and 1990's
Today the Chinese are openly trying to create a master race of Chinese.
There are BLM leaders who say white people are genetic defects and should be eliminated.
I have seen clear abusive racism against blacks/hispanics, real racism, the ugly kind, not the you hurt my feelings kind, in the 1960's and 1970's.

The idea this is caused by the uncanny valley is somewhat accurate in that we are BORN to not trust and be wary of those who don't "look right" to us based on the people who raised and cared for us when we were young.

a reply to: ManFromEurope


Ummm...actually...racism...as well as territorialism...are innate and ingrained...your not so far removed from exterminating the Neanderthal species that used to inhabit your continent as to claim any altruism in the racist regard...

It’s only because your a highbrowed European that thinks your...above all that...that you can’t recognize the fact that your not really all that more evolved than your Cro roots...

Your a racist...and a culturalist...and a territorialist...and any proclamation to the opposite...is patent elitism speaking out of it’s anachronistic ass...

As are we all...

The evidence lies in the historic factual evidence that...those who cry and point the finger of racism...are the greatest practitioners and adherents of said...

So...I call your racism...and raise you some cultural appropriation...






YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

Nope, there are evidences of hybrids between homo neanderthalensis and homo sapiens.

Really, nobody is born rascist.

a reply to: network dude

Noted your agreement too. Now to change your other attitudes to mine, too ;-)

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: YouSir

Nope, there are evidences of hybrids between homo neanderthalensis and homo sapiens.

Really, nobody is born rascist.

Just because those hybrids existed and some of us carry neanderthal DNA to this day, doesn't shoot down the argument.

A person can see an individual from a group they generally hate, despise, distrust as different than the group perception.

It's the argument that has been ongoing in this thread: perception of the group v. perception of the individual. Racism is a group judgment, a collective judgment based largely on the superficial and stereotypical. It's the whole, "I'm not racist/sexist/etc. because I have X friends thing." Well, you got to know them on a personal, individual level. Just doing that isn't always enough for someone to make the leap to understanding that every person in a group is also an individual and should be judged accordingly.

And philosophies like Critical Race Theory are actually counter-productive because they use pseudo-intellectualism to excuse *not* seeing the individual in favor of the group identity and judging by that identity.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: YouSir

Nope, there are evidences of hybrids between homo neanderthalensis and homo sapiens.

Really, nobody is born rascist.

That’s a lovely sentiment. Too bad that repeating your mantra doesn’t make it come true

originally posted by: YouSir
Ummm...actually...racism...as well as territorialism...are innate and ingrained...your not so far removed from exterminating the Neanderthal species that used to inhabit your continent as to claim any altruism in the racist regard...

I think that you may be conflating "racism" with xenophobia, or something like that. I could, at a push, see how territorialism may be innate, as well as a fear or distrust of others who appear different from us in some way, or we don't recognise but even then, a new born, who can only see clearly about 10 cms from the end of it's nose, bonds with those around it on a person by person basis, as it grows. It learns about sameness and differentness, takes it's emotional cues from those it has bonded with and trusts. Racism isn't representative of any actual difference between people. There is no "race" essentially, just a set of superficial differences that we took the time to list together in order to create a false sense of "otherness" that enabled exploitation and persecution. A learned behaviour. I don't think that there is any evidence, none at all, to suggest otherwise.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
I think that you may be conflating "racism" with xenophobia

Not if there's fear. That's the 'phobia' part.

If you put your hand on a hot stove too many times, you develop a reflexive fear.

If you're afraid to drive through certain neighborhoods because you're afraid of getting shot, that's not Racism. That's part of a Survival Mechanism.

originally posted by: CryHavoc
If you're afraid to drive through certain neighborhoods because you're afraid of getting shot, that's not Racism. That's part of a Survival Mechanism.

I would say avoiding areas where you could get shot is more simple common sense. If there is something that you need from the other side which requires that you have to drive through the danger-zone you'd do a risk assessment - right? Just as a military unit would. You weigh up the risk to your person and make a decision on how, when and why to minimise the risk. If you are going into a neighbourhood, that you know responds violently to "outsiders" then you equate whether the risk is worth it to you for your survival sure, but you're the xeno- more surely, they're the one's with the phobia or fear of you, acting out their "survival mechanism". Wouldn't you say?

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
...drive through the danger-zone you'd do a risk assessment - right? Just as a military unit would.

If I have to make decisions in my life as if I was in a Military Unit, you understand that means I'm in a War Zone, right?

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
...drive through the danger-zone you'd do a risk assessment - right? Just as a military unit would.

If I have to make decisions in my life as if I was in a Military Unit, you understand that means I'm in a War Zone, right?

They call them gang wars for a reason.

originally posted by: CryHavoc
If I have to make decisions in my life as if I was in a Military Unit, you understand that means I'm in a War Zone, right?

Either that, or like me, you're a non-dependent woman who doesn't like being told what to do but will take the best advice available. Sun Tzu and von Clauswitz should be in the arsenal of every woman that regularly walks alone - in my opinion.

I'll accept your war-zone, if you accept mine.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
I'll accept your war-zone, if you accept mine.

Deal.

When will we have a 'Zionist Dictionary', which defines 'racist' as..

The people of white race, except those of Jewish bloodlines, who hate, and denigrate, all non-white races, which are NOT racist.

It's been reported in the Zionist owned mass media for years now, so when should we expect Webster's, and other dictionaries to revise the original definition of 'racist?

It won't happen, because we'd see - in print - what they've been doing all along, in news reports, in movies, in TV shows - to make us inherently believe that all non-Jewish whites are racist against non-white races, who are all innocent of such horrific behavior! To promote Black channels, and Asian channels, is good thing. But a White channel is taboo, it's clearly a white supremacy hate channel, and will never be allowed!

So far, they aren't fooling MOST of us, at least. I don't know what the future holds, though. But I'm sure it'll be worse than today.

a reply to: CryHavoc

Well I suppose that means you and I are at war.

Bon chance

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
a reply to: CryHavoc

Well I suppose that means you and I are at war.

Bon chance

Why you gotta be like that?

I didn't tell you what to do.

a reply to: CryHavoc



Because the vast majority of those people who live in your war-zone are law-abiding people, parents and children trapped by poverty who don't deserve to be caught in the cross-fire. Poverty is a significant contributor to drug and other dependency problems, both poverty and dependency problems are contributors to crimes of violence in the home as well as out on the street. We are all limited by the choices we have available to us, and those choices are often limiting in of themselves if you are unfortunate enough to lose the birth lottery and find yourself born into a "war-zone". Gangs exist and arise because crime pays better than McDonalds, and white collar criminals set a more attractive example than their parent's working three low-paid jobs to just about make ends meet, too poor to be ill, too tired to be able to ever be well and not present enough to be able to keep their kids from coming under potentially nefarious influences. That's one hell of an unfair system.

So you and I are at "war" because I'm allied to your "enemy" in our shared struggle against social inequity not because you told me what to do, or didn't tell me what to do - or whatever.

I'm largely a pacifist so I wouldn't worry about it too much - I'm almost all bark.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
So you and I are at "war" because I'm allied to your "enemy" in our shared struggle against social inequity not because you told me what to do, or didn't tell me what to do - or whatever.

I don't have Enemies. If someone wants to make me their Enemy, that's their Problem.

So you really think I have an advantage?

I went through school with three learning disabilities that were never recognized. Most of the Teachers in my School District weren't smart enough to be Teachers, and should never have been allowed to teach me.

On top of that, I was given a name that everyone gave me a hard time about.

I was sh!t on right out the door. It didn't matter that I was White - almost everyone in town was White unless it was someone whose family moved to the nearby Army Base. You see, there's no White Privilege when everyone around you is White.

And I definitely wasn't one of the 'Cool Kids'.

So I just shake my head at people who think I had it better than them. So if you're complaining about crappy White People, keep on walking. Nothing to see here. Move along.

a reply to: CryHavoc

Okay, let's go back to the OP and what they asked, is there a relationship between the concept of the uncanny valley and racism. I say no, quite categorically, but recognise that "difference" perceived or otherwise has been used as a means of creating systems based on principles of "them and us". Slavery and segregation are one such manifestation of that social division and that social division was based purely upon a difference in appearance of one group from another and had no basis in actuality. There are no differences between those who have white skin and those who have black skin other than their outward appearance. In some cases the difference is in how some groups of people dress, how they wear their hair. Others are invisible, such as learning disabilities, but none of these differences are outside of what it is to be human and to dehumanise such differences creates division that prevents social cohesion and assimilation. So again, racism isn't a manifestation of the Uncanny Valley. Race is an invention, it doesn't actually exist, it was invented as a means of valuing and homogenising a non homegenous group of people so that they could be exploited by another group of previously homogenised people.

My enemy isn't white people because I don't believe that you can quantify or qualify people based on skin colour, but that doesn't mean that I can't recognise that people do make that kind of judgement still however archaic it is and largely because of their upbringing and social conformative behaviour in a class system that depends on some aspiring to do the #ting because they themselves were # on.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
There are no differences between those who have white skin and those who have black skin other than their outward appearance.

And that is exactly the only criteria in an Uncanny Valley situation. It has everything to do with appearance.

originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
...but that doesn't mean that I can't recognize that people do make that kind of judgement still however archaic it is and largely because of their upbringing and social confirmative behavior in a class system that depends on some aspiring to do the #ting because they themselves were # on.

That's a very wise way of putting it.