Boston College ex-dean warns "colleges are losing billions of dollars"

Jack Maguire, the founder of the enrollment-consulting firm Maguire Associates and former dean of admissions at Boston College, warned that "colleges are losing billions of dollars" as the virus continues to rage across the country. 

 "It may not be the end of it if this new wave hits and students are sent home again," Maguire said. 

NSCRC showed enrollment slumps were the most drastic at community colleges, down 9.4% overall, and 22.7% for first-year students. Undergraduate enrollment at four-year public colleges and universities fell 1.4% overall, and down 13.7% for first-year students. As for private nonprofit colleges, overall enrollment was down 2%, and -11.8% for first-year students.

Source:
www.zerohedge.com...


It seems to me COVID is accelerating the decline of a system that was already on creaky foundations.

The "student loan bubble" has gotten worse each year, with kids taking on astronomical and undischargeable debt for degrees that are increasingly difficult to translate into real-world jobs.

Meanwhile marketable skills are increasingly possible to learn online.

The kicker to me is that these schools are trying to charge their full tuition while using computer learning in the face of corona. Are you going to pay 50k for a video lecture series when most of the same info is free online?

The most prestigious Ivy-type schools have enough cash to weather anything -- for example Yale has a $30 billion endowment and already lets most undergrads who get in attend for free. Those schools are essentially like aristocratic titling and networking mechanisms for the elite, and they will survive as such.

But the middle and lower tier schools will see hard times in the future unless they radically remodel themselves. Mid-5-digit debt per year for partying and Identity Guilt Studies with a coffee shop job at the end of the tunnel isn't going to cut it much longer.

originally posted by: Never Despise
Mid-5-digit debt per year for partying and Identity Guilt Studies with a coffee shop job at the end of the tunnel isn't going to cut it much longer.

That doesn't really describe BC though, that's a top flight school. My cousin got her BE there and immediately got a job in finance.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Fair enough but I specified "mid and low tier" and noted the elite schools would do fine.

I couldn't care less, I was one of the people duped into believing I had to have a degree to succeed. I got it late in life but that was necessary in my line of work because despite years of actual experience, no one would interview you if you didn't have some type of degree. I'll never be able to pay it off because it's so much plus interest, but that's my fault for listening to them.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The truly driven to excel students will not let this situation stop them from getting their education. They know it is essential to their success.

a reply to: Never Despise

if you think about it colleges and universities are really screwed. let me first say that i certainly would not be wanting to pay their outrageous prices for online learning. but what can they do about it? it's not like they teachers less to do so. i mean would anyone here be willing to take major cuts to pay, while expected to not just work from home, thus increasing your costs (things like the extra electricity from being at home all day, plus running computer equipment. heck even extra toilet paper use). but also having to learn how to teach over the net. not to mention of course the fact-that teachers have contracts, which include things like pay. and of course all loans, rent, taxes, upkeep (and lets face it buildings actually seem to need more upkeep when not being used), and all their other bills, still need to be paid. and its not like they can just turn off environmental resources like heat. i saw a lot of pictures from malls in Asia that did turn off things like the AC and other environmental systems during a couple of months of lockdowns. it was really bad. it would seem
that many stores lost most of their inventory from things like mold and other moisture damage. about the only savings they would have would be on supplies like toilet paper, and perhaps a tiny bit of their electricity bill. so unless their is major profits being paid off to investors, where can they even save money to lower the tuition?

perhaps this would be a good time to really see just what these institutions pay for that requires the outrageous tuition in the first place, and start cutting the pork, such as big salaries paid to some teachers and especially managerial type positions. but due to contracts they can't even do that till those contracts run out.

The college / student loan bubble will burst. People are reassessing the value of higher education.

I see the top schools surviving as they have the endowments and cache to warrant the price.

The mid tier schools are the ones that will suffer. They don't offer the prestige of top tier schools but still cost a boatload in tuition and still have a lot of overhead with amenities that aren't being utilized.

Schools that can respond quickly and offer online learning and a reasonable cost will do well.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Never Despise
Mid-5-digit debt per year for partying and Identity Guilt Studies with a coffee shop job at the end of the tunnel isn't going to cut it much longer.

That doesn't really describe BC though, that's a top flight school. My cousin got her BE there and immediately got a job in finance.

Your cousin also got a degree in a field that you would expect to produce a return. Would your cousin have been as lucky if she had opted for a "softer" degree option even from a top flight school like BC?

a reply to: Edumakated

I would also say that schools that learn how to trim the fat will also do better. There may be a lot of "studies" programs falling by the wayside in years to come. It will raise a huge hue and cry when it happens, but realistically, those degrees offer nothing in terms of real world practical usage and return.

There are others like them - plenty of social sciences for example - that will also fall by the wayside. It isn't because they don't have their place but because their place is in reality a limited one. Far too may schools offer degrees in those areas and the market is glutted. You only really need a very few programs in those areas at a few schools, and it should be reserved for the very best or those with very deep pockets.

a reply to: Never Despise
He sounds like NYCity's DeBlasio. National Guard will soon become garbage collectors there. Oh well..they did it to themselves. Hope they learned a lesson.

The opportunities online with schools willing to back up their instruction with ISA's guarenteeing students a job in their field of study at a minimum salary are emerging. These schools are becoming a threat to traditional brick and morter schools who do not deliver in terms of real world application and require students to pay for courses completely unrelated to their majors.

The tradition of sending your children to colleges that indoctrinate, brainwash, and remove principled morals is over. No more will colleges charge to much for a piece of paper and an environment that's detrimental to finances,morals, and education.

I say capitalism should be allowed to determine the need for club house colleges over more efficient options. The government needs to get out of the way and allow these colleges to earn their own way. Colleges have increased in cost year over year, far outpacing inflation and wages because the colleges receive help from the government via student financing and grants etc.

.The expense would be far less if the government wasn't driving cost up and schools were only in the business of educating.

I have an acquaintance who is an "associate professor." He makes a very low salary for someone with "professor" in his title. He has to do two jobs to survive and says some of his colleagues have at times slept in their cars, unable to afford rentals.

According to this man, the schools are rolling in money but they blow it on real estate and building fancy new facilities to attract students. "Full" professors earn decent salaries but there are fewer and fewer of them: schools find it easier and cheaper to work these "associates" to the bone for peanuts and they have no job security.

He goes on to say the real problem with academia is the administrators: almost all schools have too many deans, vice-presidents, chairpersons of this and that, and other managers and do-nothing office jobs. They are often making six figures...sometimes far more than the people who actually teach. These people, he says, care only about "butts in seats:" they want as many students as possible because that is more money for their own bonuses and salaries, and bigger budgets for more crazy projects like private luxury administration dining rooms (off limits to faculty and students). Professors and teachers are encouraged not to fail anyone so standards are ridiculously lax. Failed students don't take out more loans, you see, so even if they have jr. High math skills, just pass them

If you have a system where the majority of money is flowing to a bloated administrative class while students and teachers are making due with 25-year-old cracked lab equipment, something is very wrong.

a reply to: Never Despise

They sure as heck aren't investing in cyber security protections for their students data. You want to see a department with no people and no funding, that's the one to go looking at. They also use a lot of student workers for positions that should be occupied with someone that has experience in the field. Not to say some students aren't sharp as hell and know what they're doing, but most of them are doing it for other reasons entirely.

Worked with a school earlier in the year and they had a student worker who had built their SOC up from scratch, had all the data feeds polling that they could, like something you would see in a larger company just on a smaller scale. I told their security director that as soon as that kid graduates he's got a 6 figure job waiting for him elsewhere, and their security director just shook his head and said he knew, because there was no way the school was going to pay him that type of money.

Shame, because there's an absolute ton of PHI, PII, and IP just sitting on these networks not being protected.

a reply to: Hypntick
Just seems to me, that it's more blatant then ever that personal data is a free farm, but when it comes to corporate data or "important" peoples data, they have that locked down.

We're just cattle, even the information of our daily, uneventful lives are being exploited and used for profit, while we don't see a damn dime and get higher taxes.

It's like bitcoin farming, but the machine is fueled by people.

originally posted by: Never Despise
I have an acquaintance who is an "associate professor." He makes a very low salary for someone with "professor" in his title. He has to do two jobs to survive and says some of his colleagues have at times slept in their cars, unable to afford rentals.

According to this man, the schools are rolling in money but they blow it on real estate and building fancy new facilities to attract students. "Full" professors earn decent salaries but there are fewer and fewer of them: schools find it easier and cheaper to work these "associates" to the bone for peanuts and they have no job security.

He goes on to say the real problem with academia is the administrators: almost all schools have too many deans, vice-presidents, chairpersons of this and that, and other managers and do-nothing office jobs. They are often making six figures...sometimes far more than the people who actually teach. These people, he says, care only about "butts in seats:" they want as many students as possible because that is more money for their own bonuses and salaries, and bigger budgets for more crazy projects like private luxury administration dining rooms (off limits to faculty and students). Professors and teachers are encouraged not to fail anyone so standards are ridiculously lax. Failed students don't take out more loans, you see, so even if they have jr. High math skills, just pass them

If you have a system where the majority of money is flowing to a bloated administrative class while students and teachers are making due with 25-year-old cracked lab equipment, something is very wrong.

As a staff member at a UC, I can say this statement is quite accurate.

Star if you would trade your degree in for a full tuition refund...

Well for me, its another get woke go broke scenario. My wife has a masters and I have a bachelor, so we are not against higher learning.

However we have informed both of our children who are near college age that they make consider a trade school before a university. Exceptions being the actual professions you need a degree to get a specific job (teaching, law, becoming a doctor, scientist, etc). If you don't want to be one of those things, forget it, just go to a trade school. You will save much time and money and probably end up with a higher paying job.

Also, why should anyone pay that much money to be constantly preached communism and hatred for their society? I mean universities are just no longer bastions of free thought and critical thinking. They just are not. They are brainwashing centers.

originally posted by: ketsuko
[Your cousin also got a degree in a field that you would expect to produce a return. Would your cousin have been as lucky if she had opted for a "softer" degree option even from a top flight school like BC?

She wasn't 'lucky'.

originally posted by: Fools
Well for me, its another get woke go broke scenario. My wife has a masters and I have a bachelor, so we are not against higher learning.

However we have informed both of our children who are near college age that they make consider a trade school before a university. Exceptions being the actual professions you need a degree to get a specific job (teaching, law, becoming a doctor, scientist, etc). If you don't want to be one of those things, forget it, just go to a trade school. You will save much time and money and probably end up with a higher paying job.

Also, why should anyone pay that much money to be constantly preached communism and hatred for their society? I mean universities are just no longer bastions of free thought and critical thinking. They just are not. They are brainwashing centers.

Both wife and I have masters degrees. We've done pretty well saving for school. I've pretty much decided that unless my kids are going to a top 20 school and majoring in STEM, I really see no point in them going to college or spending a lot.

I'd rather tell my kid: "I saved $250k to pay for your schooling. You have two choices. You can go to school and piss away the $250k and get your degree. Or I can continue to invest this money. When you are 48, that $250k will be about $2.7 million. At that time, you can withdraw the funds and retire early.

Your choice...

I know at 47 years old... I'd much rather have $2.75 million in the bank than my fancy degrees.

Saw a thing where many are still charging full price even though many students are at home with mom and dad E-learning...

They failed to adapt they should fail, I will have a B.S. and a Masters with zero dollars out of pocket because I went with a fully acredited online school.