Planet of the Humans - Amazing new doco from Michael Moore

I have to admit my mind is blown right now... a few days ago Michael Moore uploaded a documentary to his YouTube channel called Planet of the Humans. At first I just ignored it, knowing Moore I assumed it would be 1 hour and 40 minutes of whining about conservatives, my how wrong I was. Turns out the doco is actually a very critical examination of the green tech industry and it's very well made. I'm quite shocked that a far left guy who has a history of supporting green tech would create something of this nature, I'm also a little bit shocked this hasn't been shared on ATS yet. I believe it's only free for a limited time and some on the left are already calling for it to be banned, so watch it while you can.

I'm not sure how involved Michael Moore was in making this doco since it's directed by Jeff Gibbs, but I have to give him credit for even daring to put his name on it, that takes some balls. Seems like Moore isn't the totally irrational person I thought he was. Almost makes me want to apologize for that thread I wrote about him being deeply disturbed 2 years ago... almost. Back in May of last year I also wrote a thread titled Dissecting the Global Warming and Energy Issues in Australia in which I detailed how much of our so called "green tech" really isn't very green (for reference I posted that a few months before the recent fires in AU).

However, it's one thing to read about the pollution created by green tech, it's a whole other thing to actually see the environmental damage and the toxic waste that is produced by the mining and manufacturing processes, and that's exactly what this doco shows. From solar and wind to electric cars, they don't hold back in exposing the lies we have been fed by the billionaires and energy corporations that have bought out the green industry. These "solutions" often require vast areas of land to be decimated, their production requires massive amounts of steel, plastic, glass and cement, and in the case of solar panels they create 200 to 300 times more hazardous waste than nuclear.

This means they usually take many years before the energy used to create them is offset by the energy they produce. And at the end of the day they produce small amounts of energy which cannot power large modern societies, and the energy produced costs a fortune because it's so dilute in nature. This has led to record breaking electricity prices in places with a high reliance on green tech, I discuss how this happened in South Australia in my Dissecting the Global Warming thread. Further adding to the problem is the batteries required to store the energy because they require a large array of chemicals and other elements that aren't renewable and are hard to dispose of.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

My husband watched it in its entirety last night, (with me slobbering on the couch...I fell asleep, unfortunately). He told me it was a MUST WATCH. He talked to me about how TREES are burned for fuel and this is deemed BIO-sustainable or "Green" (it's not oil or coal, right?)

originally posted by: Cornczech
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

My husband watched it in its entirety last night, (with me slobbering on the couch...I fell asleep, unfortunately). He told me it was a MUST WATCH. He talked to me about how TREES are burned for fuel and this is deemed BIO-sustainable or "Green" (it's not oil or coal, right?)

I have to admit I do slightly disagree with the doco on the topic of bio-fuel, it does actually make some sense to have a dedicated field of trees which are used for burning and then regrown because it is actually renewable. The problem arises when you start just burning random forests or whatever, but I don't think they actually do that. The other main problem is the smoke and other pollutants the bio-generators produce, however that can also be mostly remedied through filtering and capturing the smoke, in a similar way to clean coal. If environmentalists think that is a valid solution then they cannot logically argue against clean coal besides saying its not really renewable. It's more just the conceptual idea of coal that upsets them at this point... we live in a world run by emotions.

Here's a good quote from the doco:

Because we're a little worried, are we desperate to accept any idea that sounds alternative or green? Are we avoiding looking too closely because we don't want to know the answer?

I never had a problem with Moore. He has been busted for deceptive editing many times but that's almost everyone who makes documentaries so ...meh. My only real issue is he portrays himself as this intellectual powerhouse but has no formal education, wrecked personal life and physically wrecked body.

Good orator and entertaining but anyone following this guy should take anything he says with extreme caution. He exposes some things but, he also hides things from his audience that he knows damn well are fabrications he created to make his puzzle pieces fit.

I'll probably watch this one because it sounds like he's shining a spotlight on something that severely needs exposure. Much of this green tech are not viable solutions. I put out my recycles this morning knowing good and well it is a waste of time and resources since most of it is junk mail. The USPS and recycling centers are two main sources of the problem.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm about a third of the way through right now. So far, actually not bad for a Michael Moore doc. But I just can't stand how every environmentalist puts off that vibe of 'humans bad. Must eliminate humans'. Maybe it's just me but that's how they come off.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

But I just can't stand how every environmentalist puts off that vibe of 'humans bad. Must eliminate humans'. Maybe it's just me but that's how they come off.

Yeah I know what you're talking about and I do find it off-putting as well, but they really do believe too many people is the core problem, and I mean they're not entirely wrong about that. However they do adopt a very anti-human attitude as a result rather than try to seek out realistic solutions that don't sacrifice our standards of living. Plus we're doing things much smarter and cleaner than in the past, the doco shows several examples of how we're improving in many areas but no one seems to acknowledge it, they just continually act as if the sky is falling. It's not at all a healthy way of thinking and I know that because it's how I used to think.

The Orangutan's at the end, in the one dead tree left standing and being chased in the ditch, were heartbreaking...

Also, I think this doco is an absolutely perfect example of how this issue isn't just "left vs right", it isn't a political issue at all, it's a question of how can we really generate clean energy and do it in a cost effective manner. It just happens that a lot of environmentalists are left leaning, but that doesn't mean most people on the right must not care about the environment. I clearly do care, I care a huge amount about the health of this planet because I live on it, I grew up in nature and it's what makes this planet so great. Just because I question green tech and call it out doesn't at all imply I must be a fossil fuel stooge any more than this doco implies Moore is an anti-environment fossil fuel stooge. Moore clearly doesn't like fossil fuels and cares a huge amount about this planet, and we can both agree that the current plan for "saving the planet" is hugely flawed. But I don't just care about the well being of the planet, I care about the well being of human beings and don't want us reverting back into the stone age because of emotional loud mouthed idiots who don't have a clue about the science behind these things.

originally posted by: stosh64
The Orangutan's at the end, in the one dead tree left standing and being chased in the ditch, were heartbreaking...

That was extremely sad... if the field they show at the end is some sort of biomass crop or used to produce ethanol, then I find it hard to support biomass solutions even if they do make some sense. One of the main points I made in my thread "Dissecting the Global Warming and Energy Issues in Australia" was about how nuclear energy can solve most of these energy problems if done correctly. I point out that in Australia "we don't have a single nuclear reactor despite having the most stable continent on Earth and the worlds largest reserves of Uranium", which is largely a result of fearmongering and treating nuclear energy as an unclean source of energy, when in reality it is the cleanest source of energy production we've ever discovered assuming the waste is properly disposed of.

Solar panels generate even more waste and have a much larger impact on the environment because you need a large surface area of panels to even power a toaster, as they show in one part of this doco. I also created another thread which focuses specifically on nuclear energy and goes into more detail on the benefits. Many environmentalists believe nuclear fission is evil and no better than oil or gas but that simply isn't true, and at the same time they endlessly promote nuclear fusion even though we still don't have any solid proof that it can actually work. They constantly promise it will be here soon but it never arrives, I recently saw a video where the UK promised fusion "will be here by 2040" after investing millions into it. I made the following comment on that video:

This is such a waste of money, if the same amount of money we've dumped into fusion was instead spent on improving the safety and efficiency of fission we wouldn't have energy problems... but no lets hope that we solve the problem in 20 years by throwing more money at it, despite it becoming increasingly obvious that without the massive gravitational force a star provides, it's impossible to get more energy out than is put in.

Wind and solar have been touted as a savior for renewable energy which over the last 20 years has been proven "IT DON"T WORK" if you are looking for something to replace oil and gas. Who would have thought that today you can buy a barrel of oil cheaper than a roll of toilet paper ?

I thought the video was great with delving into what and who is behind the propaganda we are exposed to constantly. I also felt that the underlining Eugenics aspect was subtle but forcefully presented. Agenda 2020/2030 crossed my mind more than once. Anyway thanks for posting. Around here they burn sugar cane yearly and the black soot and respiratory problems that causes makes the news papers every year.

Just finished. Wow!

It's actually an insanely evil genius level of usurpation. The entire green movement is led, owned, and organized by the very people it was started to fight against. And the great majority of people that follow it have no clue.

P.S. The 'animal fat rendering plant' was a pretty horrendous clip.

a reply to: FauxMulder

Its a very.. "Interesting" topic..

And, the same MO we see in a lot of other areas too..

Ill have to watch this one. In general, I dig the concept of solar/wind/etc. but the manufacturing process (batteries...) is troublesome.

Really though, these subjects in the main narrative definitely have an air of being "anti-human." All while delegitimizing those of us that care about it, but dont buy into the propaganda.

Id like to see nuclear tech get down to the household or decentralized level, but.. Im hesitant to wish for anything more advanced at this stage. Things that tend to be very effective/efficient in energy production also tend to be very effective as weapons platforms.

a reply to: FauxMulder

The people with the largest carbon footprints want everyone else to minimize their footprints but doing nothing to reduce their own and that is the real "inconvenient truth". And all these solutions...wind, solar, recycling are doing more harm than good. Wait until all the landfills start piling up with old solar panels and used batteries. Probably just sent barges of this junk to China to burn so they can scavenge the metals from them.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: FauxMulder

Id like to see nuclear tech get down to the household or decentralized level, but.. Im hesitant to wish for anything more advanced at this stage. Things that tend to be very effective/efficient in energy production also tend to be very effective as weapons platforms.

I've always thought nuclear was the way to go. I never understood the big push against it. Sure, the spent fuel is a problem but it would be easier to find a solution to that rather than anything shown in this documentary. I know in the Navy, the carriers don't need to refuel for 25 years and that's just a lump of uranium the size of a fist. That's pretty damn good.

I'm not sure if it would ever get to household level though, or even if that would be a good idea knowing how dumb people can be.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: FauxMulder
Probably just sent barges of this junk to China to burn so they can scavenge the metals from them.

And then we'll buy it back from them. Made. In. China.

a reply to: FauxMulder

Like so many things in this arena, I think its all about public perception:

1) Meltdowns (never mind where the tech has actually gone)
2) "Selected" solutions (never mind alternatives to these)
3) Lotsa money & influence through legislation (never mind if its actually going to anything)

We have some pretty dangerous stuff in/around our house already, that are entirely commonplace and most never give a second thought about it. Kinda depends where nuclear tech goes.

Having a mini Chernobyl-style reactor in the basement would probably be bad though.

a reply to: FauxMulder

The thing with the "spent" fuel is that it does continue to produce energy. There has to be ways to continue to harness that energy. I understand it's radioactive and toxic, but it is energy.

I'll admit I haven't seen it, but the problems it exposes are ones that I've known about for a while. Green energy right now is just "feel good" energy. It's impractical and just ships the pollution elsewhere to become someone else's problem. But it makes the right people feel good about themselves, and it makes the other right people lots of money.

Someday, I'm sure we'll figure out efficient ways to harness solar and wind, but until then, we need to stop forcing what we have now. Similarly, we need to stop pushing electric cars and other popular PC solutions.

I've heard that the doc plays up the old Malthusian premise a bit heavily though. Is that true?

a reply to: ketsuko

It's definitely worth the watch. I don't think they played up the Malthusian bit per se. They don't really talk about it BUT, I guess one could easily come to that conclusion just by interpretation.

I've felt the same way about the whole green energy thing as you. It was interesting to watch all the connections made. If it's possible for Al Gore to be exposed for more of a fraud than he already has, it does that. Also,a bunch of people I wasn't really familiar with.

Definitely some anti capitalist stuff in there though...

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
a reply to: FauxMulder

Wait until all the landfills start piling up with old solar panels and used batteries. Probably just sent barges of this junk to China to burn so they can scavenge the metals from them.

Last year ABC News Australia did a report taking a critical look at solar panels, which I also found fairly amazing because they're usually massive proponents of green tech. In Australia we used to ship our tech waste to Asian nations but they recently stopped taking it, so now we're basically stuck without a proper recycling system. Solar panels are basically just thrown into land fills, I'm not sure what they do with batteries but I'd like to imagine they have a better solution considering how toxic they are.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
I'm always a bit surprised when ABC releases more balanced report like this. Apparently it takes something like 10 years before a solar panel will produce enough clean energy to offset the emissions created during its manufacturing, but we're seeing many low quality panels die as soon as 2 years after they were installed. And since we have no recycling system in Australia right now they just get dumped straight into land fills. It seems extremely likely that the solar panel boom in Australia has actually caused more pollution than it has offset due to low quality panels. Our government has also subsidized this process, essentially giving an advantage to the solar industry on the assumption it's good for the environment.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

But I don't just care about the well being of the planet, I care about the well being of human beings and don't want us reverting back into the stone age because of emotional loud mouthed idiots who don't have a clue about the science behind these things.

It will not go back to the stone age.
The new world will have less people so as not to be a cancer on the earth.

The solution is in progress....

Great documentary.

Blood and Gore lol.... you couldn't make this up!