Seeking Your Thoughts on Jesus

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The entire vast history of literally hundreds of spiritual icons in mythology and all you can ask about is Jesus?

Horus, Innana, Dionysus, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Osiris, Asclepius, Attis, and Adonis

Ask about any of these other folks while you are curious.

Why don’t you start your own thread if those figures interest you so much? The OP has specific interest in Jesus and you are trying to derail his thread with your BS. Not cool.

nice hair, epic beard.

Jesus was a Jewish revolutionary. Ironically with close ties to the Essenes, they don't believe in the resurection of the body, ain't that funny?
He was very anti monetising the faith.
Anti the early Roman colonialism.
All in all a real lefty.
Also funny, no?

He was born in sin and lies. His mother had unmarried sex, not her fault she was very young and probably got raped by a Roman soldier.
But naturally especially at that time being born a bastard between two worlds took a toll on his mental health. Didn't make him a bad guy, on the contrary he was very fixiated on things like justice, equality, women's rights... also pretty ironic

He was a spiritualistic seeker always looking for direct experience of Adonai.
He was a person a real human with flaws and everything. He was never god he will never be god and he wasn't related with Adonai, which means "Lords" plural, believe it or not.

The whole story got perverted into an absurd farce by Paul the Apostle, also known as Saul of Tarsus the Liar. Who just took myths and legends popular at that time and melded it into the mysoginist hierarchical pseudo-spiritual brain# we call Christianity. Not at all what Jesus would have stood for at all if he would have gotten a say.

a reply to: Peeple

So basically Paul was a social media influencer for his time.

a reply to: Peeple

So the people who claim its a made up exaggerated story are now using made up stories to prove their point. Amazing

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The entire vast history of literally hundreds of spiritual icons in mythology and all you can ask about is Jesus?

Horus, Innana, Dionysus, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Osiris, Asclepius, Attis, and Adonis

Ask about any of these other folks while you are curious.

Why does an OP have to post about your interests? Go tip your edge lord fadora somewhere else

a reply to: JDmOKI

OP was asking all our thoughts on Jesus, these are mine.
I'm not trying to prove any point, I'm not "the people" just peeple.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
I'm a little surprised, because I did not have you down as a believer in Jesus in any sense.

As far as a Jesus as the scriptures describe, no, I'm not a believer.

You're not doing a little trolling, are you?

Somewhat trolling. I do have genuine interest in the answers to the questions I asked. But in addition to that, there are followup questions. I'll save those for now, but will bring them up later. I am trying to find holes to poke, though. Please don't take that (you or anyone) to mean I don't care about the responses I get in this thread. I read them, I click the links, I take interest as much as I can, in my position as an atheist. Even though I am firm on my stance, I still like talking to others about the subject matter. It's like beating a dead horse I suppose, at least for the most part. I'm not changing anyone's mind anymore then they are mine. But I'm starting to ramble here..

As the atheist here, my follow up questions to the forum may be petty or silly. No doubt some of the answers I get I will feel the same way about. At the end of the day, there is food for thought. I remember your story (vaguely), so maybe as a former atheist you kind of get where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
[...]

- Are God and Jesus the same entity?
- Is Jesus the Son of God (and thus separate)?
- What is the Trinity?
- Has Jesus always existed or did he only come around for the NT? If yes, where was he before that?

Thank you.

Have you ever thought that this whole "Jesus" story is fake and it was created by the Romans and perpetuated ad-infinitum by the powers that be of the time, for their own benefit and exploiting the common people?

This doesn't mean that the messenger of God is not real or that Christianity didn't have its own positive influence on the populations during the centuries. And those questions do stand, but with the above piece of information in mind I can try to answer them:

1. God and His messenger are not the same entity.
2. The messenger is the son of God, but *not* part of the Trinity.
3. I don't know exactly, but I think the Father-Son-Holy Spirit is one and the same God manifested in three different separate forms and with their specific respective functions. You can think of the Trinity as our human societal nucleus, the family: father=The Father, mother=Holy Spirit, son=The Son.
4. To my knowledge the God's messenger is Michael, the leader of this local universe, and he has existed long time before coming here. Before coming here he was leading and taking care of the inhabited planets of this local universe. But he definitely has a birth date as a soul, i.e. not eternal.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I remember your story (vaguely), so maybe as a former atheist you kind of get where I'm coming from.

In fact I was the "I'll leave Christians alone as long as they leave me alone" kind of atheist. Not interested in picking fights.

a reply to: DISRAELI

What I meant by that was, you probably still had questions. Yours lead you back to Christ. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just trying to understand Christian logic. I felt my best approach would be to start off with this thread with the first part of the question. So I didn't immediately come off as antagonistic, and then be ignored.


I'll just post my point here in a few. Like I said, it will probably sound petty but Idc. I want the opinions of Christians, and not my assumptions.

Often times when the negative parts of the Bible are brought up to Christians (basically, the tyrannical OT), they fire back with.. It was the OT. Jesus brought the NT. Things are different. I get varying opinions. I want to be sure to not broad brush all Christians as one group. Since there is no consistency among you, for the most part. How many times has the tyrannical God of the Old Testament been defended with, "that was the OT, Jesus is different" position? Way too much. It's silly because many will say that like Jesus is better, new, a fresh reboot. But...

If you believe he existed the whole time, since the foundations of the Earth etc., what is the difference? Jesus is chill because he only watched God approve of rape and murder, and all that type of stuff? No reason for me to go into all the OT stuff that we already know. But one of the biggest things I get is people telling me, that was for the Jews, etc. Blah blah blah. As if all that nasty crap is okay because it was "old school".

But if your Jesus is the same as God, or was around for all of that, etc etc. Then you come preaching to me about how Jesus is about love and mercy and forgiveness... I honestly don't know how anyone could see how that makes everything okay, or different. Sounds more like the predator needs a sidekick to help lure kids to the van.

If you believe Jesus is God or has been around since the start, should know he is just as guilty of being abhorrent.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So when you guys tell me Jesus is different, and about peace and turning the other cheek, yeah... right.

I'm not picking for a fight, just some answers to this logic.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

All of the above.

'God' is much bigger than a single manifestation.

Like the Internet isn't a single computer, 'God' isn't a single person.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit(s) are essential parts of God.

We might be able to identify a person or character in Jesus, due to his human incarnation, but perhaps less so for the Holy Spirit(s) or God overall. They transcend that type of identity.

That's my thoughts on the matter, anyway. Not that I, as a human, have the intellectual capacity to really know all of God. I can know what God has revealed.

Also, Jesus during the incarnation and ourselves, are immersed and limited in time. The divine is not stuck in time. They/it are/is beyond it. They/it can be in or out of it and at the same instant (because time is no limiter). It is not actually relevant to describe God as before, during or after anything, because God is.

originally posted by: schuyler
Jesus was a charismatic guy with a message. That's it.

Then what's all the fuss? If such was the case, He can't forgive or save us so we're just doomed sinners.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I think a guy from Nazereth, of Jewish parents having a non Jewish name is suspect.

Why do we refer to a historical figure, by a name he surely wasnt called?

Because of early acceptance of the Latin translation - the Vulgate which rendered Yesua, a Hellenification of Joshua (again a Latin Translation of the Hebrew name) as Jesus a Germanification/Anglification of Ioesus.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Awesome, you are going to come up with fresh new questions never discussed before, great

Look forward to them 🦄🌈💃

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Oh that question again
Bit disappointing, really

I wondered the same question decades ago, seen it breeched thousands of times yet, you, again, well done

Not picking a fight?
I have answered this question so many times on here

Who are you WUB
Do you really want an answer
Do you really care
Just trolling for reactions

Nothing anyone says means anything to you relating to this question, you don’t want the answer, your minds made up

But be aware, God is love and God is justice, that justice must be carried out as it is a form of love. That’s the answer
Ponder it

Rape and murder, troll, people were right at the beginning, troll question.
But they can be fun occasionally

The Ten Commandments,
Don’t kill, don’t have sex outside of marriage feel free to ignore what doesn’t suit your dumb narrative

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What I find really strange about your reasoning and comprehension skills is your bemoaning of the negative aspects of the bible and laws
They are there and clear, good and especially bad, not just the good stuff, bad stuff as well. No hiding evil like most historical books of that age are want to do. Every dirty little detail, nothing hidden
Cos you are an altruist, think every other historical book is true and other ancient cultures did nothing evil because they didn’t record their evil. Blind and deaf but not mute, trumpet what evil you see and deny what is not recorded, cool but it’s pretty dumb. All cultures were evil.

Just as an aside, if a person didn’t want to be a Jew, they could leave and go to another more permissible society, neighbor, culture. Jews were not forced to be Jews. Many Israelites today are non Jewish

You don’t seem to think things very clearly

a reply to: WakeUpBeer
The biblical version of Jesus never existed. The man might have existed, though I have serious doubts about that as well. If he did, it would be quite interesting to know the real story.

1. No.
2. In his opinion, yes.
3. A borrowed ideology that spans millennia. For example, the Celts believed in trinities of gods and goddesses long before Christ would have walked the earth.
4. According to Jesus "Before Abraham was, I am." John 8.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Oh I'm sorry, the ten commandments are part of the old law that Jesus came to change.. Or am I only getting bronze in my mental gymnastics?
Your God is evil all around brony.

ETA:

Which is the point here. Though I know you and most people of faith reading it here will disagree with. You guys want to claim one thing, then contradict it in another. Always with the "Jesus was about love and had nothing to do with the nasty OT stuff" in one breath, and in another, "Jesus always was, is and will be" talk. So how awesome could Jesus be if he was there during all that. Yeah go ahead and tell me it is out of love and righteous justice. I know you and others believe that. These questions aren't for you or them. It's for the actual critical thinkers.

I do apologize for my trollish antagonizing. I get a bit heated and get rude sometimes. It is what it is. That doesn't change my genuine interest. You just don't like the reasons for my genuine interest. Because I'm not a believer. Which is fine. I think your posts are stupid too. Me doing a little trolling here is nothing compared to the Origins forum. But I digress.

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Your only defense or justification for God being worst than the Stalins and Maos you so often bring up, is divine justice. Using Christian logic, I could make the argument that God himself (I mean he is the one allowing Satan his power, am I wrong?) wanted them to do that. Stalin, starving the population. Hitler, burning Jews (hell maybe God allowed it because they didn't accept Jesus, ammiright).. If EVERYTHING is ACCORDING to GODS PLAN, than WHY always point the finger at "Satan".

Don't bother replying to this unless you want to add something. Some scripture, perspective, something constructive. Yeah, maybe I haven't done that. But I'm really trying to understand the mental gymnastics of your type and am left wanting, when all you say is "can't be bothered" (not a direct quote). It is true, that both of us, are very firm in our stances. I assume you would agree. But hey man, you're the one that's supposed to be a fisher of men. Not the guy that throws his line across another then tells the other guy to go f himself.