Dec 12th, 2019 UK General Election Thread

originally posted by: doobydoll
I'm guessing more people are dependent on the benefit system under the tories, not less.

The problem with the benefits system is that it is a balance. Too generous then you get an objectional situation where there is no incentive to work, while too low and you get a situation where people who genuinely cannot work are overly disadvantaged.

Beyond all the hype and the politics of this, we know that in the past welfare payments acted as a disincentive to work. They were too generous and perversely they disadvantegd working people who saw their taxes wasted.

On zero hours contracts. There is context because some people like the flexibility of zero hours.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: doobydoll
I'm guessing more people are dependent on the benefit system under the tories, not less.

The problem with the benefits system is that it is a balance. Too generous then you get an objectional situation where there is no incentive to work, while too low and you get a situation where people who genuinely cannot work are overly disadvantaged.

Beyond all the hype and the politics of this, we know that in the past welfare payments acted as a disincentive to work. They were too generous and perversely they disadvantegd working people who saw their taxes wasted.

On zero hours contracts. There is context because some people like the flexibility of zero hours.

Working people should never have to claim benefits. The benefit system was never meant to subsidise the payrolls of corporations that pay zero tax anyway - how come tories don't see this as wasting taxpayer cash?

Most low-paid jobs are managed by employment agencies that only offer zero-hours to workers. Yes it suits some people, but not most. Employment agencies offer zero-hours only and nothing else, take it or leave it. There should be contracts on offer too for those that want them. There's no way to plan for a future on zero-hours - how do you get a mortgage when your job could end at an hour's notice? What's the point in working one's fingers to the bone just to be directed to the benefits queue at the end of your shifts?

Better off turning to crime and going to jail than working in the UK under the tories. It's probs why the crime rate has sky-rocketed since they were elected.

originally posted by: doobydollThing is, under Tory govt, hard-workers with full-time jobs are claiming top-up benefits or they can't pay their rents and other living costs. People are working for benefits. Earning their poverty. That's not a better life for hard workers.

Most are on zero-hour contracts too, going to work every day hoping they don't get laid off today. Every month, exhausted, stressed and broke, having to hand over payslips and bank details and every tiny bit of personal information to govt jobcentres so they can get top-up benefits to scrape them through the next month. Disheartening.

Yeah that is too right......... Being honest and realistic about it there does need a rigning in oif the big companies and their pay structures. But whoever is in control of the state they all seem to bend over backwards to the City and their mega money monsters. Profits of billions of Pounds by the supermarkets while their shelf stackers and trolly pushers workers are forced to seek benefits in order to survive is wrong, so wrong, but who gonna sort this out. What really is hurting is those in the middle who are facing excessive taxes so the trolley pushers can receive their 'top ups' and all the while the top 1% are paying the least taxes and escaping with their massive wealth without contributing themselves. If change is to come to their state of affairs any political party needs to target the middle UK population who are funding the minimum wage population as they are becoming tired of the 1% getting off with running with the profits while they have to fund the minimum wage top ups. Change is needed but they all seem to play ball with the City whoever gets into power. Blair was as bad as it gets (and Brown)when it came to this justlike the Tories. Maybe everybody should vote SNP and give her a chance to change our system

A real quandry for me this because I voted out believing the hype of taking our country back etc. But foolishly I did not realise what it would do to UK business and therefore how it could threaten my livelihood. Now my head says stay in but my heart still says out. So I either want a deal where the customs union is untouched or just stay in. However I wont vote libdem for their undemocratic arrogance so that leaves Labour or Conservative. Oh and I dont want a hung parliament so against my better judgement it seems I will have to vote Conservative

originally posted by: macpdm
A real quandry for me this because I voted out believing the hype of taking our country back etc. But foolishly I did not realise what it would do to UK business and therefore how it could threaten my livelihood.

Too right, they played BrExit as a real jingo revolt while behind the scenesx it was a total con artist trick and those who are going to get most hurt through the stitch up assuming we don't get tariff free trade are the ones who fell for it. aNYWAY its too late now, the ball is rolling and nothing going to satisfy hard hatted Brexiteers othere than total withdrawl whatever the consequences. Best bet claim political asylum in Berlin or expect the worst and watch big Corps flee our cast off island to relocate in the worlds biggest single market the EU

Seeing the race tighten according to the latest predictions from the two sources I placed in the OP.

Tories down from 364


Tories down from 342

My prediction is as follows:-

Con = 318
Lab = 240
Lib = 31
Brex = 8
Green = 1
PLaidC = 4
SNP = 40
DUP = 7
SF = 3
Aliance = 6

It will be a coalition government Cons/Brexit

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Apart from all those 'hard workers' who now have to depend on food banks to survive due to the 9 years of austerity we've had under tory rule. Oh yes, another five years of the tories is just what we need.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Arnie123

Trump is a living legend and an example to every leader worldwide how to govern your country and help your own people. Just wish we could have him over here

Hahahaha, this is a joke right!! Fml what has the world come too

a reply to: jamespond

Hey James I said in another post that the 1% owners of the BIG supermarkets etc need reigning in and forced to pay a fair wage to the trollies pushers and shelf stackers to prevent the middle subsidisning their wages when the UK Oligarchs should be paying them a fair wage. Government must encourage / push this through but they all seem to be in on it with the City whether blue or red they all piss in the same pot

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Arnie123

Trump is a living legend and an example to every leader worldwide how to govern your country and help your own people. Just wish we could have him over here

Hahahaha, this is a joke right!! Fml what has the world come too

Trump is doing an excellent job over there in the USA for American workers. All the stats point to this, he's taking on the sell outs who destroyed American manufacturing plus the Chinese who have also destroyed much of USA industry. So the Yanks have somebody running their show who actually tries and succeeds to bring back jobs home, who actively supports USA manufacturing and doesn't jump into insane Middle East wars and you say that's a joke. To me and many others Trump is somebody to be admired and his leadership is a standard to be aimed at in future governments over here

originally posted by: jamespond

Apart from all those 'hard workers' who now have to depend on food banks to survive due to the 9 years of austerity we've had under tory rule. Oh yes, another five years of the tories is just what we need.

And if Corbyn gets in with his spending plans, food banks will be the least of

problems....... the country will be bankrupt before the end of the five year

term of government.



Reply to ufoorbhunter

To me and many others Trump is somebody to be admired and his leadership is a standard to be aimed at in future governments over here.

He did promise to make America Great Again!!

a reply to: eletheia

Exactly........ Can you imagine having a leader over here who was up for genuinely supporting the people and building up our manufacturing again like Trump is doing taking on the Chinese to level the playing field. As far as I'm concerned all our leaders are sell outs and just feed the drip to the 1% CEO's in the City while having a total disregard for us 99% of the population. Trump is amazing and becoming a living legend in his own lifetime.

originally posted by: eletheia
And if Corbyn gets in with his spending plans, food banks will be the least of

problems....... the country will be bankrupt before the end of the five year

term of government.

and that is so true of any Labour government.................. They destroy the country every time. The prospect of Corbyn getting into power is horrific but Brits are pretty good at keeping out radicals, hopefully common sense will prevail

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Can you imagine having a leader over here who was up for genuinely supporting the people......

Never had one in my lifetime.....or at least not as long as I've followed politics.

..... and building up our manufacturing again......

Is that the same manufacturing that The Tories single-handedly destroyed?

....like Trump is doing taking on the Chinese to level the playing field.

This site is inundated with Trump threads, I'm certainly not being a part of turning this into another one.

As far as I'm concerned all our leaders are sell outs and just feed the drip to the 1% CEO's in the City while having a total disregard for us 99% of the population.

Indeed.
Some common ground.

Trump is amazing and becoming a living legend in his own lifetime.

Trump is a complete twat....that's all I'm saying in the man here other than his continued power and influence is a matter for Americans to decide.

...and that is so true of any Labour government.................. They destroy the country every time.

I know, all those bloody things Clement Attlee introduced, what a bastard!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

And I mean, it was Labour who absolutely destroyed our manufacturing base, sold the family silver, enabled and funded the housing 'boom' that has crippled ordinary, everyday British people, serially under-funded the Armed Forces, Security Services and Police Forces, blah blah blah.

The prospect of Corbyn getting into power is horrific.....

On that we completely agree....the man is a disgrace and should not be allowed anywhere near any position of power and authority.

..... but Brits are pretty good at keeping out radicals,

Which was why they voted in David Cameron, a man who sold them 'austerity' which was nothing but the pursuit of a political ideology targeting the most needy and vulnerable in this country wrapped up as a totally unnecessary and ineffectual economic necessity.

....hopefully common sense will prevail

Unfortunately its not that common.
And none of the options available inspire any hope whatsoever for the future.

a reply to: Freeborn

In fairness mate, i think the Unions also played a big role in the break up of UK industry - if you remember the 70s. Too many strikes demanding the unaffordable eventually led to overseas manufacture instead.

Certainly not absolving the Tories who have had some very silly policies here but they most certainly are not the only ones responsible.

It is also an inevtiable off shoot of a rapidly modernising world with inter connected business and trade. Long term though, the outlook is better just using simple logic. As living standards, wages, etc, rise around the world, the desire for overseas manufacture looks less appealing - meaning that sooner or later it returns to home shores.

a reply to: Freeborn

Er ya make some very good points but it was not the Tories who destroyed our industry it was Callahan who let the Unuons as Fflavian points out get out of control and wreck out productivity and power cuts living with candles. Labour are far more wreckers plus Gordon brown played his part too. They are all in it together it a Commie plot

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Freeborn

In fairness mate, i think the Unions also played a big role in the break up of UK industry - if you remember the 70s. Too many strikes demanding the unaffordable eventually led to overseas manufacture instead.

That is too true and the Conservatives were brought in under Thatcher to sort out what was effectively a country devasted by what looked like a war zone. TPTB just couldn't control the radicals who were getting into powerful positions in business and unions. Great products being brought out like the Rovers equal to anything the Germans could bring out but totally let down by those radicals coaxing the workers into crazy strikes over anything and everything. The country was on its kness it was literally falling apart back then in 1979 and our products never got back on track so the buyers voted with their pockets and went German Japanese Italian etc when the quality spec depts. let the show down. radicals needed removing before the country fell apart as it always does u nder Commies and Maggi was the natural result of a medication emerging to heal or the sores and wounds of a country on its death bed. A vote for Corbyn is a vote for a return to the insanity of the late 70's and there are the same old militants just waiting for him to get into power to start flexing their muscles again expect to disarray and strikes everywhere as the reds all start filling their own pockets and destroying our great state at the expense of us all

a reply to: Flavian

I get that mate.
I know its not all one party or another's fault.....they are both to blame.

And yes, the Unions had become too powerful.

But Thatcher was particularly vindictive in her desire to eradicate unions and their power.
She fuelled the housing 'boom' for which we are ALL still literally paying the price.
She sold off all our utilities which are now foreign owned and draining money out of this country.
I could go on but now's not the time and place.

I've seen the factories close, the abandoned shipyards and engineering sites.
I've seen whole communities devastated by pit closures and works shutting.
I''ve been that man with no job, no prospects, no hope.....

All just to further a political ideology.

I know Corbyn isn't the answer to this nations problems.....neither are Boris and his Tories, or Swinson and the LibUndems.

That's got me a bit down when I was a bit chirpy before....I'm going to the chippy for a bit of scran, then lounge about before yes, you guessed it....pub o'clock!

a reply to: Flavian

Too many strikes demanding the unaffordable eventually led to overseas manufacture instead.

The main reason for manufacturing decline was the irresponsible decisions made by the business owners and governments.

Take the motorcycle industry. Britain lead the world, but major under investment and wrong management decisions meant we where overtaken by Japan.

After the war, motorcycle manufacturer Triumph moved from its destroyed site in Coventry to a new factory in Meriden. Following the war, the British motorcycle industry was enjoying its golden years - brands such as Norton and Triumph held global supremacy in the 1930s.
But gloom soon followed and a series of mismanaged mergers with BSA, and then Norton-Villiers had created struggles in the manufacturer

www.coventrytelegraph.net...

The Aircraft industry, this speaks for itself.

The Saunders Roe SR177 was designed as an interceptor to counter fast, high-flying Soviet bombers. It was known as a "mixed-power" aircraft in that it was fitted with both rocket and turbo engines. It could climb rapidly to 60,000ft (it could even have reached heights of 85,000ft) and it could fly at well over the speed of sound. The first in-service versions would have been armed with two British-built air-to-air missiles. Negotiations had been entered into with the then West German Government with a view to producing the aircraft on a joint basis, the aircraft eventually equipping the Royal Air Force, the Fleet Air Arm, the German Navy and the Luftwaffe. This joint production programme would have been the largest in Europe, and it would have brought down the unit cost per aircraft by huge economies of scale. Conquering world markets with the aircraft would then have become a real possibility.

Yet all of this, and more, was thrown away by Duncan Sandys and the Tory Government, which at the time was under the premiership of Harold Macmillan. One cannot help but ask the question: "How do such people come to be in such positions of power?

www.spearhead.co.uk...

The Shipbuilding Industry. More Tory Mismanagement.

The seeds for this situation were sown in the 1980’s when the Thatcher government used European structural funds to close shipyards, rather than funding investment that would have allowed Britain to compete in the global marketplace for shipbuilding orders against the likes of South Korea.

www.politicshome.com...

And the list goes on.