Maybe I'm wrong but I think the T word may apply.

I think after the conclusions of today. There is obviously some serious problems with the Democrats attack on our president Donald Trump. I think these actions go beyond just due diligence and I think it has been a very directed, false attack based on political bias and easily provable lies, misdirection and manipulation.

The question is, where do we go from here? When this is won out completely which it already has been, what do we do with the people that wasted hundreds of millions of our tax dollars to try and overturn a seated, elected US POTUS on fabricated nonsense with absolutely no real proof of any wrongdoing?

What should be the charges for those that perpetrated this coup?

How does ATS still call itself a conspiracy site?

The Trump presidency is a literal goldmine of corruption and deception. It is 1984 being played out right in front of you naked shaking its tail feathers.

a reply to: Helious

eh treason is the only crime defined by the constitution so unless they were working with hostile nations were at war with ,levying armies etc it does not fit exactly not that its not shady mind you


en.wikipedia.org...

treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." A contrast is therefore maintained with the English law, whereby crimes including conspiring to kill the King or "violating" the Queen, were punishable as treason. In Ex Parte Bollman, 8 U.S. 75 (1807), the Supreme Court ruled that "there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war."[17] Under English law effective during the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, there were essentially five species of treason.[citation needed] Of the five, the Constitution adopted only two: levying war and adhering to enemies. Omitted were species of treason involving encompassing (or imagining) the death of the king, certain types of counterfeiting, and finally fornication with women in the royal family of the sort which could call into question the parentage of royal successors. James Wilson wrote the original draft of this section, and he was involved as a defense attorney for some accused of treason against the Patriot cause. The two forms of treason adopted were both derived from the English Treason Act 1351. Joseph Story wrote in his Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States of the authors of the Constitution that: they have adopted the very words of the Statute of Treason of Edward the Third; and thus by implication, in order to cut off at once all chances of arbitrary constructions, they have recognized the well-settled interpretation of these phrases in the administration of criminal law, which has prevailed for ages.[18]

so i think treason is a non sell but some charges may pop up but not too likely least in my opinion

a reply to: Helious

Take them out to a pillory in center square and let the people throw rotten vegetables at them for the remainder of their term, plus 1 year for each count.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Then start your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

Thx.
-d

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
How does ATS still call itself a conspiracy site?

1984 being played out right in front of you naked shaking its tail feathers.

sure it is, 1984 is the Democrats playbook....

a reply to: Helious

Yeah why won't a guy like Giuliani just take a few minutes of his time to point out these "easy provable lies" and clear everything up...??

Peace

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog
How does ATS still call itself a conspiracy site?

The Trump presidency is a literal goldmine of corruption and deception. It is 1984 being played out right in front of you naked shaking its tail feathers.

It's incredible to me that posts like this can still be typed. Honestly. Trump is the furthest thing from "1984" I have ever seen and believe me my friend, I am a very close student of history and am acquainted with the litterateur intimately.

I will concede that Trump is the worst President when it comes to public speech and using social media, which is quite new by the way but what I will say, without any doubt and can defend on any merit is that he has been a rebirth to this country. He has bypassed the ordinary political nonsense and made choices that actually benefited our country ...... Not a little bit, a lot.

Those that oppose him do so because they have a problem with the things he says, you get triggered, it's not within your safe zone of speech, I get it. Sadly, you being in your safe zone isn't what makes America great, wasn't 50 years ago and isn't now.

What makes America great is a very strong and influential foreign policy on trade and GDP and making deals that benefit our nation instead of cow tailing to foreign lobbyists.

When you really learn about the world and understand it, you can appreciate why Trump is one in a million.

Hey there. It's pretty obvious to me that there are issues of obvious corruption and questionable actions and ethics on BOTH sides. Surely most on this site realize that. I am beginning to regard the responses attendant to these hearings as a litmus test for what your particular motivations are, because it's become so obvious that the "swamp" is still the very same "swamp" and no one is really draining it, but protractrating it, elongating its influence, and just using political theater to distract us while a pretense is played out either way, and our expounding upon that is a narrative DOD colleciton exercise.


LOL. Yeah, it's pretty sad to be that cynical, but when you get his old and still survive, this realization may be part and parcel of your survival. NONE of "them" are on your side, our side, and are busy dividing us and concquering us just based on THAT particular perception: whose side are you on, and why?

I always thought Trump would be a very dangerous leader in foreign policy issues. Presidents don't really do that much or have that much power, but they represent us on a global scale, and that potential is fraught with escalation of real war, loss of life, and the power and give and take of BORDERS, CONTROL,etc. This isn't rocket science to figure out.

You won't meet with a new Ukranian president, fighting for its sovereignity from Russia, but you'll abandon Syria, being bombed by Russia, in bed with Turkey, etc. But you will go to N. Korea and meet with Kim whatever. HUh.

So the whole thing has been prosecuted and proved their was Russian influence going on in the 2016 election you friggin WON, already. But you're so ego driven you can't get off twitter, shut your mouth, have some grace and then you got CAUGHT redhanded after a special counselor cleared you of collusion of very obviously participating in a pay to play scam putting Ukranians under pressure for your political gain. Doesn't seem like you give a crap about the global consequences, other than you winning another election. But meanwhile, all these guys around your inner circle controlling your campaign have been INDICTED AND CONVICTED. That should have been enough, but you just couldn't let it go. Sorry, yeah, I think the Bidens, the Clintons are pretty corrupt, but so are you. You can't "drain a swamp by refilling it with your own swamp gas."

Sorry, this is how I see this. There is a certain grace and sacrifice to being a GOOD leader that eclipses your ego, if you're truly a good leader. Yeah, I think Biden profitted, the Clintons are corrupt, etc. But I also see very clearly YOU AREN''T doing anything different than that status quo. So it just becomes about the wrongs cancelling each other out.
Or just dividing the country and threatening civil war and anyone who expresses and opposite opinion to yours.

What America truly used to mean, what made it America, after all, was the ability for us all to express different facilities for approaching life and opinion, and still maintain respect for us all as individuals with the RIGHT to do that and fight for what we believe.....not a descent into ego and calling people names and twittering, etc.

I expect and want more class in you, if you are to represent me. Your speak and talk about representing the "common" person trying to live, while saying constantly the economy is better than ever......what's the proof in that? Stock market numbers? LOL. 1% of the populous can gamble on the stock market. It represents absolutely NOTHING for how most of us are doing, just trying to NOT BE homeless, eat, have a job and a vehicle to drive to it, medical care, etc.
GET FRIGGIN REAL.

R ant over.
tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

If America was a business, Trump would be the best.

What we have here is the difference between a boss and a leader.

Peace

a reply to: tetra50

Hey, I hear your concerns! You can look back to my posts to voice those same concerns and even now i am left draw dropped at some of the things he says and or tweets.

I get it, trust me I do but internationally, America has NEVER been stronger. Outside of that, you would have to be the worst kind of person to not find a job right now, people are hiring anyone that is a warm body.

Trump says the things he does most times because he doesn't understand all the BS that comes in between a problem and solution. He sees a problem and he fixes it. He doesn't care about your personal feelings, he is trying to run a profitable nation that benefits all of us.

originally posted by: operation mindcrime
a reply to: tetra50

If America was a business, Trump would be the best.

What we have here is the difference between a boss and a leader.

Peace

Hey operation mindcrime: Yes. EXACTLY. But the salient point in that is, Americanism is an ideal, not a business. It's an ideal of freedom of expression, individulaism, sovereinity to be and express all that, NOT A BUSINESS. Capitalism is necessarily a "laissez faire", hands off situation. And yet, are we to sell our souls? More salient to that, even, is does anyone really understand how much real estate, the only real investment worth anything, is owned by foreign interests? Does anyone understand why that's even important, and does anyone really even care about that anymore?
The moment that began to take place, of course there was foreign influence on our elections and government, for if it's run as a business, then the biggest investors have the biggest influence. Does 2+2=4 or 5, or 6?

If America it truly to be "great" again, we must reconcile capitalistic interests and big money, with the ethics of what we are trying to stand for. Right now, it's just enough money, you get your say. Not enough, express the wrong opinion, and suddenly you're in a hotel room, suicided with two shots to the head. Yeah, it's that real. And it's long past time to realize that's where we are.

Our children aren't safe in school, or really anywhere. What do we really want here? They were ALL on Epstein's flight manifest to his private island. I don't really wanna go there, because it's more information than I can comfortably deal with, quite frankly, and I was invited to be a member of QAnon, but couldn't deal with the reality of what I was reading.

The point is, it's WAY past time to run this country as a business, because you can make money off any friggin skewed scheme out there. Is that what this country IS, really? Cause if it is, I don't want to be here anymore, but I am not in an economic position to leave, and still believe there is something ideally worth fighting for, here. We MUST stand up, and take it back.
regards,
tetra

originally posted by: operation mindcrime
a reply to: tetra50

If America was a business, Trump would be the best.

What we have here is the difference between a boss and a leader.

Peace

U.S. America IS a business, why do you think we base valuation on our GDP?

It's a nation based on valuation. You do realize we have social security numbers to determine a percentage of valuation of the nation right?

originally posted by: Helious
a reply to: tetra50

Hey, I hear your concerns! You can look back to my posts to voice those same concerns and even now i am left draw dropped at some of the things he says and or tweets.

I get it, trust me I do but internationally, America has NEVER been stronger. Outside of that, you would have to be the worst kind of person to not find a job right now, people are hiring anyone that is a warm body.

Trump says the things he does most times because he doesn't understand all the BS that comes in between a problem and solution. He sees a problem and he fixes it. He doesn't care about your personal feelings, he is trying to run a profitable nation that benefits all of us.

Hey Helious: Great respect for your POV. However, I just don't see it that way, respectfully. I am a 57 yr old woman, disabled, living off of SSDI. Every disc in my back and neck and thorax is now ruptured. It didn't happen because of lifestyle choices, which you will notice, increasingly, that people with medical issues are increasingly blamed for them because they supposedly caused their own issues from their "lifestyle choices." Having said that, it was a direct response to anyone can get a job cause they're hiring any warm body. So that's one point to that.

My other point to that response, is.....lol, yeah, for what Wendy's minimum wage, and you could work over forty hours a week and still not be able to pay rent and utilities and whatever loans you've incurred just trying to survive the last five or so years.

Come on, get real. It's really not about being lazy and not wanting to work. And at this point, I should say that I live below the poverty line now, but there was a time in my life I had plenty of money. Invested in the market. Daytraded, and was actually pretty successful at that. So I've been on both sides of my own argument. Had money, invested, live well, and been homeless, too. Runs the gamut. But none of it ever had anything to do with being LAZY, not working, etc. That's not even an issue in what I'm discussing.

IF you want this country to represent something truly great again, then it has to necessarily depart from capatalism, which necessarily encourages ALL PAY TO PLAY schemes, in any and every form. It CANNOT be business, as usual, because if the business is just about money, then there is necessarily no foundation backing anything up. Anything becomes acceptable, as long as you can get away with it and it earns money.

This is the fundamental issue and argument, really, in play. Few realize it and its importance. I disagree that we are "stronger than ever globally." Look at a friggin map. Understand what has taken place with oil, Saudi Arabia, the whole "Arab Spring" thing, oligarchies, Russian expansionist interests, ports of call where there are both oil pipelines and tankers offloading crude......and the already proven and prosecuted Russian influence in our electoral processes, and the fight since the break up of the Soviet Union for all those "tribal," ethnic states to either maintain their sovereignity, like Ukraine, like Georgia, or be overtaken by an authoritarian, oligarchy sponsored leader for life, like Putin, while Trump has a vested interest in building another hotel complex in the heart of Russia.

Come on. No, the economy isn't better than it's ever been. Sorry, I don't know where you live, but it's just not where I live. Even if I weren't disabled, the reality of people looking for work and desperate, is your're just a target for more scamming. We are at a tipping point. It's quite obvious to me. It is more and more difficult to just keep a roof over your head, pay utilities, eat, never mind entertainment or buying clothes or such.
Nevertheless, the essence, I truly believe in being an American, is I can express that and you can disagree, and I respect your right and intelligence to do that.
regards,
tetra50

IMO Trump would have to be a lot worse than some of his critics claim he is to be even one hair of corruption HRC represents.

Can any thinking person dream about where America would be today if the wicked witch had won ? No jobs, companies still moving to other countries with lower tax rates, the biggest gun grab in American history and thus some serious civil strife. These are just a few things off the top that are very apparent to me; but I am not a fortune teller and in this case thank heaven as 68 million people and the electoral college put a stop to her.

Not off topic IMO as there was a choice and Trump is the president even though every NWO propaganda machine hates him.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: operation mindcrime
a reply to: tetra50

If America was a business, Trump would be the best.

What we have here is the difference between a boss and a leader.

Peace

U.S. America IS a business, why do you think we base valuation on our GDP?

It's a nation based on valuation. You do realize we have social security numbers to determine a percentage of valuation of the nation right?

Hey Vector99: GDP. Let's be specific about that:

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is the monetary value of all finished goods and services made within a country during a specific period. GDP provides an economic snapshot of a country, used to estimate the size of an economy and growth rate. GDP can be calculated in three ways, using expenditures, production, or incomes

Do you actually think we value things this way anymore, and I ask, because you also brought up the essence of what each having an assigned SSN may mean, so obviously, you KNOW that's just part of the slavery, tracking system, that number.......to track our work product within the SUPPOSED GDP, and tax us for whatever we supposedly earned, and then when it's retirement time, call our withheld "benefits," "entitlements."

The rise of technology and informational industry has necessarily meant a substantial decrease in any real GDP, any real created, built, product of economic value produced and sold, like say, the car industry. A real thing built in a real factory by real people earning their living. This is what GDP is SUPPOSED to represent. But the fact you also referenced SSNs, means you understand quite well the slavery aspect in all that. That number is like your a Jew in a concentration camp, with a tatooed number on your wrist.....this is what this has become, really.

And increasingly, there ISN'T any GDP. It's all a commerce, narrative collection about your life, what you buy, what you need, and how to profit off that. It increasingly has less and less to do with any real globally produced, built, hard product for trade or sale.

Part of what that translates into is that there is no honest nor integrity based way to make a living anymore. Because it's no longer about building something worth something and selling it. That's an "honest" living by what we define here in America as a "hard day's work." The most prolific jobs out there these days are sitting in a call center cubicle and either skip tracing to collect debt, or scamming off a non working phone number. We ALL get these calls. Who do you think makes them and gets paid for it? And where do they get your number?

To shop for groceries economically at my local Winn Dixie, I HAVE to subscribe to their supersaver card, which means I have to give my phone number, address, etc. to get discounts that allow me to purchase enough groceries to live. That also means, though, that somewhere there is a record attached to my name, address, ssn, age, etc. that keeps track of what I buy, how often I buy it, what I spend on it, etc. Getting the picture? I know you do. Because you referenced GDP, which really no longer exists in any real valuation system, and ssn's at the same time. The money, valuation is no longer based in any real, hard produced recognizable product, it's just about the information about you, what you buy, how to influence you. The money exchanged NOW is not valued in GDP, AT ALL, but totally informational based, about you, who you are, what you like so you can be marketed to, controlled, extorted and used for profit, all purely informational in that context.
regards,
tetra

The House’s use of its Constitutionally-mandated power is not a “coup” nor is it traitorous.

It will be ineffective, which is all that matters.

Nancy Pelosi’s claim that they can’t leave the matter to an Election is, in my opinion traitorous, and should result in her immediate removal from the House.

a reply to: tetra50

US America has too large of a population to support socialism even in it's most basic forms mixed with heavy capitalism. We see this in real time with the current situation facing many cities, states, and even on the federal level. Pensions are failing due to mismanagement of funds in several states, while welfare programs in many states also have reached and exceeded the allotted budget, hence the need to seek federal funding to ensure benefits.

When you raise wages, you automatically raise cost of goods too. Raising minimum wage only increases the likeliness of hyper-inflation, as all costs will have to be offset. If labor costs go up by 10%, prices will likely increase by 12-15% to offset the new insurance rates paid on the increase to workman's comp insurance along with the increase of the employers burden of taxes. Oh wait, you didn't know? You know the taxes that are deducted from your check, your employer pays that same amount for your labor, and higher wages equal higher taxation, therefore a need to compensate the difference.

So yes, please keep championing for those higher wages so we can all enjoy $20 loafs of bread and $30 gallons of milk, because that is how will it eventually end up.

a reply to: tetra50

Part of what that translates into is that there is no honest nor integrity based way to make a living anymore. Because it's no longer about building something worth something and selling it. That's an "honest" living by what we define here in America as a "hard day's work."

I've been many things in my working life, from fast food, bartending, middle and upper management, self employed business owner, and now am an hvacr tech.

There is nothing but opportunity available in this country, you just have to apply yourself. Opportunity will never knock if it doesn't know what door you're behind.

It MUST be that I'm not expressing my POV well enough, because I'm not advocating any kind of socialist agenda. In fact, I kind of resent that you took it there right away, but am not all that surprised. There aren't that many folks left around that understand the connection between GDP, hard durable goods, and social security numbers. So, let's just say, I have my own skepticism about you, as well, as what you've expressed about my POV, which really has NOTHING to do with socialism.

I'm weary of the labels. It's just another method of control and division. On that note, that will be my last reply to you, certainly not out of disrespect, but we will never agree, and I do suspect your inherent motives displayed in your responses and subsequent labelling of my POV as "socialist."

It's just not as simple as lables, anymore. And I think you well know that, because you knew what valuation and GDP meant. But that also means, you inherently knew that GDP ceased to be a valuation factor about ten years ago, like when all steel industry crashed, for instance. There IS no more GDP in this country, and nothing you've said trying to label my POV as socialist is really addressing that reality. This is inherent in the discussion of capitalism and what is happening in this country. Few get it. We're just too distracted and enteretained by the alternative: gadgets, iphones, ipads, fb, etc. That's the NEW GDP. The new valuation is all about collecting who you are, what you think, where you live, what you buy, what you need, and using all that info to control your options in life.

That's where the f#@ck we are. And I think you recognize that quite well.
tetra