Woman Charged With First Degree Murder Of Fetus In California

originally posted by: DorianSoran

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I’m not sure there’s any better legislation possible.

Sure there is, make it against the law to kill babies. See how easy that was?

Dorian Soran

It’s already against the law to kill babies.

How can you not know that?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This again?

A human fetus doesn't have autonomous constitutional "personhood" rights, according to the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

Neither did slaves before 1865.

Incorrect, technically. Each slave counted as 3/5ths of a person.

Point taken, slaves actually had more rights than the unborn.

I stand corrected.

Besides that, aren’t you one of those folks that believe it’s okay to kill the unborn baby if you think the circumstances warrant?

No.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This again?

A human fetus doesn't have autonomous constitutional "personhood" rights, according to the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

Neither did slaves before 1865.

Incorrect, technically. Each slave counted as 3/5ths of a person.

Point taken, slaves actually had more rights than the unborn.

I stand corrected.

Besides that, aren’t you one of those folks that believe it’s okay to kill the unborn baby if you think the circumstances warrant?

No.

So there’s no occasion that an abortion procedure might be necessary?

In your opinion?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This again?

A human fetus doesn't have autonomous constitutional "personhood" rights, according to the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

Neither did slaves before 1865.

Incorrect, technically. Each slave counted as 3/5ths of a person.

Point taken, slaves actually had more rights than the unborn.

I stand corrected.

Besides that, aren’t you one of those folks that believe it’s okay to kill the unborn baby if you think the circumstances warrant?

No.

So there’s no occasion that an abortion procedure might be necessary?

In your opinion?

If the fate of the galaxy and all of humanity rested on the determination that one unborn child needed to die, I might pause and give it some thought because I am only human after all and fallible.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I was asking Sookie. She said a fetus is not a person. So according to Sookie this can't be murder. Somehow Sookie thinks killing a fetus because you don't want it is fine, but doing it because you are an addict is murder.

I would not have directed that question towards you, because you are pretty reasonable and not a hypocrite. Sookie wants it both ways though, and you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you believe a fetus is not a person this can not be murder.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This again?

A human fetus doesn't have autonomous constitutional "personhood" rights, according to the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

Neither did slaves before 1865.

Incorrect, technically. Each slave counted as 3/5ths of a person.

Point taken, slaves actually had more rights than the unborn.

I stand corrected.

Besides that, aren’t you one of those folks that believe it’s okay to kill the unborn baby if you think the circumstances warrant?

No.

So there’s no occasion that an abortion procedure might be necessary?

In your opinion?

If the fate of the galaxy and all of humanity rested on the determination that one unborn child needed to die, I might pause and give it some thought because I am only human after all and fallible.

So that’s the only situation in which you can imagine abortion would be necessary?

Fascinating. I have to say I admire your cold logic.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

She said a fetus is not a person.

That's what the Supreme Court of the United States said, in 1973.

Sookie wants it both ways though

If "both ways" means respecting the law of the land and the rights of autonomous women to make decisions about their own bodies and future, then count me in!

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gryphon66

I was asking Sookie. She said a fetus is not a person. So according to Sookie this can't be murder. Somehow Sookie thinks killing a fetus because you don't want it is fine, but doing it because you are an addict is murder.

I would not have directed that question towards you, because you are pretty reasonable and not a hypocrite. Sookie wants it both ways though, and you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you believe a fetus is not a person this can not be murder.

I’m not sure that believing that a mother who choicefully imbibed a substance that she knew would kill her VIABLE fetus is responsible for its demise is inconsistent with believing that abortion procedures should be available as determined by law and judicial decision.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'm sure that the descendants of southern slaves will be comforted to know that you think their ancestors were at least as autonomous as a developing fetus in the womb.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

She said a fetus is not a person.

That's what the Supreme Court of the United States said, in 1973.

Sookie wants it both ways though

If "both ways" means respecting the law of the land and the rights of autonomous women to make decisions about their own bodies and future, then count me in!

If there is no person, there is no murder. What person was murdered in this case?

a reply to: Gryphon66

It's a fetus, not a person, if you believe that, no murder occurred.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

A fetus was killed due to it's mothers prenatal drug abuse.

I think it's tragic, but I also think that drug abuse is a mental health problem.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

A fetus was killed due to it's mothers prenatal drug abuse.

I think it's tragic, but I also think that drug abuse is a mental health problem.

A fetus, which is not a person according to you. So no person was killed, thus no murder.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It’s a viable fetus. I suggested involuntary manslaughter, but as someone pointed out, the LEOs were probably going high.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

A fetus was killed due to it's mothers prenatal drug abuse.

I think it's tragic, but I also think that drug abuse is a mental health problem.

A fetus, which is not a person according to you. So no person was killed, thus no murder.

Obviously, according the law of the land, as dictated by the US Supreme Court, not me.

If you consider a fetus a person, that's your right. But the US Constitution doesn't bestow personhood rights on the unborn.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It’s a viable fetus. I suggested involuntary manslaughter, but as someone pointed out, the LEOs were probably going high.

Manslaughter requires a person being killed. So is this a person, a human being, or not?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

A fetus was killed due to it's mothers prenatal drug abuse.

I think it's tragic, but I also think that drug abuse is a mental health problem.

A fetus, which is not a person according to you. So no person was killed, thus no murder.

Obviously, according the law of the land, as dictated by the US Supreme Court, not me.

If you consider a fetus a person, that's your right. But the US Constitution doesn't bestow personhood rights on the unborn.

I am not asking for the law, I am asking for your opinion. Is this a person, was there a person that was killed?

a reply to: Gryphon66

How did she know it would kill the fetus? I mean, didnt she have a few kids while she was using the crap? Those experiences should have told her that the crap would screw the babies up, but if her intent was to kill the fetus, (which I believe is a necessary component of 1st degree murder), her experience would tell her that her drug use probably wouldn't have a good chance of succeeding.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

My opinion is in agreement with legal definitions and laws.

What any one individual considers a fetus' status within the human race is subjective.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Most State law views the viable fetus as a homicide victim when killed if I remember correctly.

That doesn’t apply when the method of demise is a legal abortion, because you know, Roe v. Wade, etc.

Hey, did you answer my question? Is there any situation in which you believe that an abortion procedure is necessary?