Gobekli Tepe--Fact or Ficton???

a reply to: Hanslune

In response to my bonfire question----I do not. I was being facetious.

My understanding of the YD impact is we are still not yet sure how big the impact was or if there were multiple impacts. I know GH had proposed the comet exploded before it hit the ground and he was proposing the impact area north of Washington and Oregon. I recall a few years ago near Nova Scotia (??) they had found tentative evidence of a possible impact point but I don't know much more than that.

What I am trying to say is IF the belief about the size of the YD impact ends up holding water what basis would we have for comparison? If the accounts from Native American tribes of other cultures from the time hold any water they tell of horrible days of horrible weather. Is it that hard to imagine someone realizing the impending doom and making there way to Tepe to leave some kind of marker?

Like I said...the proposed impact would have coated the planet in debris no? For a rather lengthy period of time? It doesn't have to be a clock that reads the exact moment...just a "stone age" We Were Here.

a reply to: St Udio

or was the Landmark buried because the burial was the official End of the Goddess 'Gaia' control of the World ? seeing that the Patriarch Religions were the new religious Paradigm around the world.

An interesting thought considering how prevalent goddesses were at one time. The Moon was feminine long before it was ever masculine.

a reply to: Cygnus_Hunter

Yes....He can get into the psychedelics a tad heavy....or seems to get more deeply into it.

But those kinds of beliefs tend to be mostly harmless to the general public. I'm a atheist in a world of believers---and I mean in my daily life--and most of them don't bother me because in the end it's just a belief. I guess I'm saying I look at "drug culture" a little bit like religion---if it gets you through your life and makes you a better person then great. If you find yourself raving in spoiled underpants along the side of the road.....MAYYYYYBE calm it a notch or two

a reply to: Hanslune
No, your jumping to conclusions again. Carbon dating? Carbon dating of what? There have not been any finds of material that could be alloted to the builders. Just because there are graffiti marks in the relieving chamber does not mean they were the builders. There is still controversy on whether or not a Colonel Vyse put that on to boost his reputation. Think on this, you must have seen modern graffiti on walls, but that doesn't mean those "artists" built the wall.
What Hancock has always said concerning Tepi that it could not have been built by hunter/ gatherers, even big tribes or clans. The size and complexity it has got to be an agricultural society as hunter/ gatherers could not have fed enough people over the period of time it took to build. Only settled people could have constructed it, that means farming/ agriculture not hunter/gatherers.

a reply to: Klassified

without going too far in a tangent...

Introduction to Goddess Spirituality - Caroline Myss
www.myss.com...

Introduction to Goddess Spirituality In most ‘traditional religions’ the supreme or only deity is male. But what we are now learning is that our most ancient traditions are traditions in which both men and women worshiped a Great Mother, a Great Goddess …

Too often... today's direction of thought to explain cultures from Antiquity.... center on the themes Entheogens &/or the Precession of the Zodiac ---> Typical male determined themes...instead of cracking the Symbolism & Code we find in the volumes of Myths found in every culture

a reply to: St Udio

In the end....what you are proposing is not much different from religion.

With all due respect...I am not looking to quench my spiritual thirst or stave off my concerns that there is nothing beyond what we know as life. This kind of journey is for others. My pursuit is just because we are constantly pushing back the dates of history as we know it. Just look at all the stuff about the bronze age and the weapons they found this week that push Bronze Age in Europe back by a respectable order.

I never bought into the fancy about Atlantis and crystal pyramids....of a powerful technological marvel the like this world has never seen. In the end the most shamanny of shamans has been just as effective as the holiest of holies when it comes to outside help. And given what we know about science and human behavior....I am sure people were just as wicked even when the goddess was directing them.

The thing is...how would those in the "goddess period" know their period was over? In the documented history of man how many times have key players actually understood the gravity of a moment? Even things we were told as gospel in school about recent history gets changed as scholars push for more truth or knowledge.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Hanslune
No, your jumping to conclusions again. Carbon dating? Carbon dating of what? There have not been any finds of material that could be alloted to the builders.

Did you read either of those studies? I guess not they dated the carbon and straw found in the gypsum mortar located between the core stones.

May I humbly suggest you read the study before dismissing it?

journals.uair.arizona.edu...

Just because there are graffiti marks in the relieving chamber does not mean they were the builders. There is still controversy on whether or not a Colonel Vyse put that on to boost his reputation. Think on this, you must have seen modern graffiti on walls, but that doesn't mean those "artists" built the wall.

Vyse wouldn't have done so as the multiple names of the Pharaoh were not known at that time. Egyptology was at an early stage of still learning the language. 'the controversy was made up by Sitchin - no more needs to be said. The relieving chambers were sealed at the time of building and were only entered by the Victorians using explosives.

Here are some images of what that graffiti looks like these are not all just a sampling.







Also you didn't mention Goyon'Grinsell mark - it was name found in 1940's on a core stone.



Now here is a fun question have you ever noticed how the fringe constantly complains about the evidence pointing to the ancient Egyptians - and not never just list all the evidence for the Invisible Civilization: Lets see, they left no writing inside the pyramid or outside of it, they left no burials, habitations, tools, pottery, or any evidence of their existence while at the same time the AE and those other cultures in the Nile valley left millions of artifacts - odd eh?

What Hancock has always said concerning Tepi that it could not have been built by hunter/ gatherers, even big tribes or clans.

Yes he said that but why should we believe him?

The size and complexity it has got to be an agricultural society as hunter/ gatherers could not have fed enough people over the period of time it took to build. Only settled people could have constructed it, that means farming/ agriculture not hunter/gatherers.

Yet no sign of those folks just HG's so as usual he makes claims and expects people to take his opinions as facts - they aren't.

What evidence we currently HAVE points to HG. GH is speculating on evidence that MIGHT be found in future.

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
a reply to: Hanslune

In response to my bonfire question----I do not. I was being facetious.

My understanding of the YD impact is we are still not yet sure how big the impact was or if there were multiple impacts. I know GH had proposed the comet exploded before it hit the ground and he was proposing the impact area north of Washington and Oregon. I recall a few years ago near Nova Scotia (??) they had found tentative evidence of a possible impact point but I don't know much more than that.

GH makes up stuff then abandons it without explanation. His latest 'opinions' he'll probably dump when his next book comes out.

GH's latest hot flash is about this crater: www.sciencemag.org...

What I am trying to say is IF the belief about the size of the YD impact ends up holding water what basis would we have for comparison? If the accounts from Native American tribes of other cultures from the time hold any water they tell of horrible days of horrible weather. Is it that hard to imagine someone realizing the impending doom and making there way to Tepe to leave some kind of marker?

Why would they do that? How would they communicate and why would they build all those circular structure - and why would they care to do so?

originally posted by: crayzeed

...

Just because there are graffiti marks in the relieving chamber does not mean they were the builders. There is still controversy on whether or not a Colonel Vyse put that on to boost his reputation. Think on this, you must have seen modern graffiti on walls, but that doesn't mean those "artists" built the wall ...

The question of whether there were any witnesses to what Vyse supposedly did in the Great Pyramid is closely scrutinised in this work,published earlier this year.

originally posted by: Hooke


The question of whether there were any witnesses to what Vyse supposedly did in the Great Pyramid is closely scrutinised in this work,published earlier this year.

Yes a very good book I've read the first volume and will be getting the second a bit later. I know the two authors. They demolish the Sitchin based idea and the recent attempt by a slightly (redacted) person who has tried to bring the bad idea back to life - without success.

Oh and by the way he was a British Major General and not a Colonel. The confusion arises as he was a colonel when doing his exploring in the pyramids but later promoted.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Hooke


The question of whether there were any witnesses to what Vyse supposedly did in the Great Pyramid is closely scrutinised in this work,published earlier this year.

Yes a very good book I've read the first volume and will be getting the second a bit later. I know the two authors. They demolish the Sitchin based idea and the recent attempt by a slightly (redacted) person who has tried to bring the bad idea back to life - without success.

Oh and by the way he was a British Major General and not a Colonel. The confusion arises as he was a colonel when doing his exploring in the pyramids but later promoted.

Yes: having been placed on half-pay in 1825, he was promoted to the rank of Colonel in January 1837 (presumably by purchase); but didn't become a Major-General until 1846 (presumably by purchase again). He was, of course, a wealthy man ... but, despite all the high military ranks, he wasn't actually that keen on the military life, preferring foreign travel and antiquarianism. The question is, of course: did his archaeological ambitions really lead him to forge cartouche names of Khufu in the Great Pyramid? Would he even have had the knowledge to do such a thing?

As you say, there's more on this in The Strange Journey of Humphries Brewer.

a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you for the read. Its good to know the hunt is still on!!!

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you for the read. Its good to know the hunt is still on!!!

The hunt is always on! I've been looking for an 'flowering' of human culture in the Eemian (or the last interglacial or Riss-wurm) based on the idea in our last transition from a ice age to warm - agriculture and 'civilization' were invented. I've wondered if during this previous ice age/ warming period - something like it might have happened.

So far no luck.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Hanslune

Again thank you for another link. I am curious though.....doesn't the information on the page talking about the warmer climate kinda torpedo claims from current climate scientists about global warming?

I know I am mixing threads but if the average person never looks into this period of temps all you hear is the Earth have never been warmer.

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
The thing is...how would those in the "goddess period" know their period was over? In the documented history of man how many times have key players actually understood the gravity of a moment? Even things we were told as gospel in school about recent history gets changed as scholars push for more truth or knowledge.

True. The people living at the time would probably not even notice that they've reached the end of their glory time. Who was the last guard to abandon his post at the Great Pyramid and go home? When did a chunk of the decaying roof fall off of the Roman Senate and nobody bothered to fix it?

And more than that, a lot of the things that lead to the eventual downfall of a country or civilization happen a long time before everything starts clearly going to ruin. Historians only know when it happens because they have hindsight. It could very well be that the decline and decay of the United States can be pinpointed to an event that already happened, like the military evacuation of Vietnam. Historians could easy say that was the turning point. That was when everything started to go downhill. Or JFK's assassination, when many formerly patriotic, positive people decided that the government could not be trusted. And now we're still in the slow decline.

In most cases like this, what happens is that a state decides to beef up its own military, goes rogue, and refuses to pay the central government taxes. Look for that as a next guide marker.

What happened to Gobekli Tepe? My guess would be it failed due to prolonged drought. It fell into ruin for hundreds of years at a time, got rebuilt a few times during periods of better weather, but eventually it just got buried and forgotten about because people were too busy trying to survive hunting and gathering.

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
a reply to: Hanslune

Again thank you for another link. I am curious though.....doesn't the information on the page talking about the warmer climate kinda torpedo claims from current climate scientists about global warming?

I know I am mixing threads but if the average person never looks into this period of temps all you hear is the Earth have never been warmer.

In the past the Earth was quite hot; the long term projection is a cooling of the temperature over hundreds of millions of year. the Holocene shows a warming then cooling trend but the immediate short term shows an unusual spike towards heat which is thought to be cause by human pollution.

However lets not go into GW here. There is an up tick of warming since we started keeping detailed records.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Quadrivium

The myth of the cyclops derives from such a gap in technology.

....wut? What does that have to do with the myth of the Cyclops. Without rambling too much, the origins of that myth are based upon certain fossils found on the Greek Isles...

originally posted by: Maroboduus

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Quadrivium

The myth of the cyclops derives from such a gap in technology.

....wut? What does that have to do with the myth of the Cyclops. Without rambling too much, the origins of that myth are based upon certain fossils found on the Greek Isles...

Link

Harte

a reply to: Maroboduus

The 'ancestors' of what we call the Ancient Greeks were two groups of people who thrived on the isle of Crete and southern main land Greece.

They built massive complexes made of giant stones that over time the Greeks just lost all knowledge of how they were moved, they found various tools and fossils scattered around and made up a myth that a race of giants could have only moved such giant stones into place. Those giants were the cyclopes.

The history of Greece is up and down, even the Romans went on archaeological digs on old sites in such places like Delphi.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi
a reply to: Hanslune

Thank you for the read. Its good to know the hunt is still on!!!

The hunt is always on! I've been looking for an 'flowering' of human culture in the Eemian (or the last interglacial or Riss-wurm) based on the idea in our last transition from a ice age to warm - agriculture and 'civilization' were invented. I've wondered if during this previous ice age/ warming period - something like it might have happened.

The transistion between ideas emerging and their reaching "good currency" often involves a massive time lag. The further we go back into history and pre-history the greater that time lag becomes. Agriculture, in the settled sense, was only possible once we had acquired certain technologies, effective food storage being primary. Long before we developed agriculture we had learnt various ways of preserving food, and in developing that knowledge we also learnt ways of controlling numerous forms of decay. Civilisation is largely a derivative of managing those stores and ensuring their fair distribution. Settlements are as much an expression of confidence in their own abilities as they are in the abundance of nature to provide for them in that spot. The Natufian experiment failed not because of the abilities of the settlers but because the environment changed. They picked up sticks and went back to wandering but with the knowledge of what worked and what didn't under their belts. Settlement failed first time, the human groups who tried it, did not, they re-adapted - learnt.

Stephen Oppenheimer's work is demonstrating that the first waves of AMM out of Africa were most successful when they hugged the coastlines, and that that the route South-East following the coconut along the Indian oceanic coastline was the first major success. You can get all sorts of useful ideas from studying a coconut.

I think that if there was a cultural "flowering" during the Eemian it was more likely to have affected better dispersed hominids subjected to conditions that contracted their available resources. The idea of dividing resources amongst the group is probably much older than we are. I think our key innovation to the formation of "civilisation" was organising labour but even that was built upon the "idea" of sharing. Neanderthals were, it seems, particularly good at sharing. We, as a species, are excellent mimickers and developers, sharing is something we have to be taught usually, preferably by example.