Gobekli Tepe--Fact or Ficton???

So I have been sprinkling my ancient history curiosity between this sire and another site----Ancient Origins. To be honest it seems like that this particular line of interest has taken a huge backseat on ATS. Dunno why.....I've always found this site both informs and tempers so of my wilder fancies.

The article I would like to discuss:

www.ancient-origins.net...

I guess my first thought after reading the article was that Ancient Origins is a lot less a reliable source of news. I think the one thing any of us nonprofessional history seekers fall prey to is overly declarative statements that give rise to the allure of unknown history hidden between words that paper over a lot of the more fantastical claims. The example in this article is the author talking about them using the signs of the zodiac that are "more or less" the same. Its that "more or less."

A few years ago I would've said--here it is proof that Graham was right (I know I know.....) but someone more well versed in astrology signs pointed out to me that all zodiac signs are based upon our knowledge and would not have been the same for this lost culture. Is it that simple in the end?

Anyways---this site really has brought me a lot of insight and its sad to see the lack of topics over the last year. I have this belief that there was a different culture of man and they have been lost. I know all logical claims about how there would be proof of some culture that would have been so wide spread. It just seems so reasonable that the YD event could've have altered the path of man tragically setting it back thousands of years.

So what say you ATS...is this more "junk science"...Is Tepe the thing that proves the fringe right about ancient history? Are we even still alive in here?

the thing that struck me was after they said "more or less"

"although most of the animal symbols corresponding to each constellation have changed."

well, how does one know that??

and from what I can see from the pictures of pillar 43 I do not see all the zodiac signs

it seems a leap of faith, to me

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

I know all logical claims about how there would be proof of some culture that would have been so wide spread.

I believe the most impressive proof is in the stone work.
Most of the older structures are vastly more complex than newer structures built around or on top of the older.
Blocks of stone were bigger, cut to fit within thousandths of inches, harder to move and harder to cut. As time went by the structures get 'simpler', most not even being cut but stacked haphazardly.
Gobekli Tepe is also a from of 'proof'. The carvings on those T-Blocks are not reliefs but were sculpted out of the stone. This would have been much harder than just carving the image into the stone as we see later in history.
Just my ramblings.
Quad

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

When some one starts off a story with "but what if..." then continues on as though his "what if " is fact. That's a screwball not worth listening too.

Speaking of T-Blocks, they indicate to me a long history of post-and-lintel construction. So...just how far back can we push the origins of the site?

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

Graham is more than half junk science, but I think the age and such of gobeklitepe’s age and such are mainstream.

a reply to: Quadrivium

It's not uncommon. Rmemeber even the ancient Greeks digressed back to wood buildings and temples for many years. The myth of the cyclops derives from such a gap in technology. It was a dark age, many settlements and civilizations go through them.

a reply to: cognizant420

The problem with your statement is that at one time someone said....What if the earth is not flat? What if the earth is not the center of the universe?

So while I can appreciate the sentiment----it's certainly not a statement to draw a line over

a reply to: JustJohnny

Honestly Graham holds a special place in my heart basically because Fingerprints of the Gods actually spoke to the atheism in my heart.

It's not a biter thing---and maybe more agnostic??? But it made clear so many questions I never realized I really had about religion.

But I respect his work---even if he might make huge leaps and sometimes overlook things. The guy is out there creating his story. Not reading someone else's

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

The precession of the equinoxes has been used to suggest the pyramids are much older than Egyptian folk-lore.



"The Great Pyramid of Giza was built for the Fourth Dynasty Pharaoh Khufu (or Cheops), and was completed around 2560 BCE. It is part of a complex of 3 large pyramids in the Giza Necropolis located in modern Cairo, Egypt."

But the video suggests the pyramids and Sphinx were built over 10,000 years ago much to the chagrin of Egyptologist.

a reply to: thedigirati

The precession of the equinoxes and how they line up with stone structures is not easily explained in text post. See my previous post on how this is done with Egyptian pyramids. I imagine the same thing is being found true with the building alignments in Gobekli Tepe suggesting the age of the structure.

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

The article is a lot of conjecture and ... frankly ... imagination.

However, as far as the site itself and what it was and what it may mean and what it may EVENTUALLY tell us about ourselves and our history?

AMAZING!

I look forward to actual archaelogical/anthropological study in the future, peppered with all us gadflies who don't all together trust everything They tell us. LOL.

Thanks OP for bringing the article.

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

True, but it's the way most conmen start out talking

a reply to: dfnj2015

They weren't built 10,000 years ago ... the geological pattern of the nile migrating prove it. Link Also it's been speculated that the Sphinx was surrounded by a pool of water, and there's also lots of evidence suggesting the entire pyramid complex was lavishly filled with fountains and waterways to the point where some archaeologists believe the pyramids were sort of irrigation pumps.

a reply to: atlantiswatusi
Stop asking questions. Stop listening to and/or reading any alternative theories. Just believe everything mainstream academia tells you, and you shall be saved.

a reply to: strongfp

Thanks for the link....I have not heard about the pump theory...I will have to look into that unless you want to enable my laziness and provide a link lol.

Still though....in reading you link I'm not sure that disproves anything. It has been established during this proposed period that Egypt had a lush jungle or at least plentiful vegetation. Am I not seeing something you are by chance?

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

So much of the stone work of the ancient temples and/or fortresses
whatever they may have been? At first glance one can see that they
couldn't be a part of this world. They aren't even included in the history
of this world. To the history of our world they have always been there.
As modern humans our construction techniques are known well to us.
And they are easily accomplished with out struggle. But we wouldn't
even attempt some of the masonry we see at places like Machu picchu.
Because the difficulty would make it senseless. But for who ever built
these ancient wonders, it must have been easy for them or they wouldn't
even have thought of doing it. That's the scary part for today's all knowing
academics who seem more intent on leading us away from the truth more
than finding it.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: thedigirati

The precession of the equinoxes and how they line up with stone structures is not easily explained in text post. See my previous post on how this is done with Egyptian pyramids. I imagine the same thing is being found true with the building alignments in Gobekli Tepe suggesting the age of the structure.

No, I am going by what the text was in the link.

what are you going by?

show in the linked text where it says they are looking at stone alignments

that is not what it says, I even quoted what it says.

do facts bother you?

and yes I already knew about the Orions belt alignment theory, it is also used to show why the Sphinks look water worn,

but you didn't mention that part.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: atlantiswatusi
Stop asking questions. Stop listening to and/or reading any alternative theories. Just believe everything mainstream academia tells you, and you shall be saved.

It's best to learn what is presently KNOWN then speculate on what which is unknown. It doesn't work very well to speculate when you don't have a clue what is presently known. You don't have to believe what the mainstream writes but you should have the data as in almost all cases its reliable while fringe material tends to be made up, out of date or taken out of context.

A good way to view it is this; orthodox information is considered reliable until shown to be not, fringe material is considered to be unreliable until shown to be not.

originally posted by: atlantiswatusi

So what say you ATS...is this more "junk science"...Is Tepe the thing that proves the fringe right about ancient history? Are we even still alive in here?

lol well no it isn't the paper they are referring to was written by two engineers - fans of GH. The problem is as you noted we have no clue what people imagined the stars showed them - what patterns they made up. Speculation on that is boundless and well-speculation. Modern anthropology has shown that groups made up large variations on this question.

If a comet hit in that time period of circa 12,000 BCE (the current range is 12,000 to 3 million years) the folks over at GT would have been completely unaware of it. The distance is 6,000 kilometers - they would not have seen anything. Later they might have noted dust in the air but how would they have associated that with an impact they didn't see? Depending on the size of the explosion they might have heard a rumbling like some heard when Krakatoa blew up but that would have sounded like distant thunder.

Now could someone else in say northern (modern) Scotland have seen anything? Probably not they might have heard something like a distant rumbling - might have seen a streak in the sky - much like thunder then wandered back a couple thousand kilometers and told the other folks but - why would they have cared?