The Left Make Giuliani & POTUS Trump Guilty with Campaign Finance Violation Before Facts are Known.

originally posted by: Liquesence

Where did I say that?

originally posted by: Liquesence

It's not "freely given" if it's coerced. Or if it's implicit or explicit that there are conditions or consequences to receiving it.

Or if it's conditioned on money.

Coercion and bribery are almost the same thing, so don't play stupid.

originally posted by: Liquesence
He conditioned military aid on political dirt. Fact. The WH released the summary. Don't play stupid or try to spin it.

The article you quoted and linked is an opinion piece. Opinion.

Pay attention.

Post the section in the transcript of the phone call where POTUS Trump did that...

In other words post EVIDENCE.

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

when lefties like yourself still believe that Hillary won,

She got more popular votes, so yes, she "won."

By whose process ?
Yours ?

Reality.

Your reality ?
Doesn't work in the US under Constitutional Law.
Don't know how it works in your world and don't care.

Denying ignorance
Why ?
Some folks just beg for it.

a reply to: Liquesence

Yeah Liquesence ... just remember coercion is the same as bribery and civil laws are the same as criminal.

(They call that "false equivalents"... I think.)

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: mtnshredder

You are 100% right, but those people don't see through their own hypocrisy and double standards.

No they don’t and I have a hard time understanding why. Acknowledging and recognizing things for what they are, with no bias, only makes us better human beings. It’s crazy but many people seem to be ok dumbing their selfs down all on their own, no help needed. Yeah, I don’t get it, one of life’s mysteries I suppose.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Coercion and bribery are almost the same thing, so don't play stupid.

Do you understand the grammatical important of the word "or?" Read the post you quoted...and the law.

Post the section in the transcript of the phone call where POTUS Trump did that...

Read it

Aid was conditioned on political dirt.

Oh, and the text messages.

a reply to: Gothmog

Constitutional Law.

Hence, reality.

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: Gothmog

Constitutional Law.

Hence, reality.

What , you agreed that Hillary did not "win"
I concur.
Bully for you .

Come on Now......This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: mtnshredder

You are 100% right, but those people don't see through their own hypocrisy and double standards.

No they don’t and I have a hard time understanding why. Acknowledging and recognizing things for what they are, with no bias, only makes us better human beings. It’s crazy but many people seem to be ok dumbing their selfs down all on their own, no help needed. Yeah, I don’t get it, one of life’s mysteries I suppose.

I think some people just like the idea of double standards. The rules you live by don't apply to me, that sort of thing. I'm smarter than you. I'm more educated than you. I have more money than you, etc. You don't deserve the same rights I do.

I've read this discussion with more interest than I thought I would. Does information have value? Of course! How can you even dispute that? Is it illegal to seek information? Apparently, that depends on who you are.

I recently read an article (which didn't gain a whole lot of attention) about how the Courts ruled that the FBI violated the law by using NSA spying data. Who was sent to jail over these violations of the law? Noooooobody.

If I were in a televised Presidential debate and someone gave me the questions in advance, I would consider that a thing of value. But nobody goes to jail for that.

Publish secret information that exposes government crimes or corruption? Yeah, you can go to jail for that one.

You have information about a billionaire running a pedophile network? Here's some money, shut your mouth, and be thankful for the time you have left on this Earth.

-------------

I can't help but wonder. It's obvious (to me) that Biden has already bought the Democratic nomination. The debates are just for show; the illusion of choice. If he were to win the Presidency, how would the Democratic party react if Biden were treated the same way in the MSM as Trump is treated now?

originally posted by: chr0naut

I don't actually ever have opportunity to listen to Russian officials. Nor do most from English speaking countries.

We don't even speak the language, so they can prattle on 'till their face goes blue and we're like "ho hum", what a funny fellow going all blue in the face like that.

Yet you believe in the "Steel dossier" and "FISA warrants with false Russian propaganda", and the claims from anti-Trump people whom never had any evidence of wrongdoing. Yet they investigated everyone connected with Trump and including using those lies to try to depose the dully elected POTUS... These false claims, which came from Russian officials close to Putin, ruined people's lives and with these lies you, and the rest of the left, continue to try to depose the dully elected POTUS.

originally posted by: Liquesence

Read it

Aid was conditioned on political dirt.

Oh, and the text messages.

POST EXCERPTS from the trasncript, don't try to play coy. You don't add any excerpts simply because you have no evidence that POTUS Trump did what you CLAIM he did.

However, Biden CLEARLY, and from his own mouth, admitted to having withheld over $1 billion U.S.D. unless the former Ukranians fired the prosecutor whom was about to indict Hunter Biden...

Nowhere in the transcript does POTUS Trump used the language used by Biden...

The fact that so many of you don't acknowledge the difference between the POTUS phone call with the Ukranian President, and the bribery/coercion/blackmail that Biden used just to get his kid out of trouble, speaks volumes about whom is being honest here.

Again, EXCERPT any part of the transcript in which the POTUS used the same language as Biden did...

Be honest for once in your lives...

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Liquesence
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

when lefties like yourself still believe that Hillary won,

She got more popular votes, so yes, she "won."

By whose process ?
Yours ?

Sry wrong thread

It is well-documented that many in the EU and in the US at the time wanted Shokin removed over a long period of time.

Claiming that Joe Biden did it on his own is preposterous. Was the EU trying to protect Hunter too?

edit....no need for the same PSA on this page.....

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: chr0naut

I don't actually ever have opportunity to listen to Russian officials. Nor do most from English speaking countries.

We don't even speak the language, so they can prattle on 'till their face goes blue and we're like "ho hum", what a funny fellow going all blue in the face like that.

Yet you believe in the "Steel dossier" and "FISA warrants with false Russian propaganda"

The FISA court is an American court where foreign security matters can be discussed and adjudicated. The majority of its decisions and processes are classified. I'm not sure how you think it could be infiltrated by Russia.

The Steele document was the product of an ex-British Intelligence (Mi6) analyst and collected together reports and allegations about those involved Trump 2016 campaign. Some of those allegations came from Russian sources. Not all of the allegations have been verified.

Trump–Russia dossier From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While there may have been some acceptance of allegations within the Steele document, the FISA court mostly related to other data and from other sources. The fact that they cross verified each other, lends credence to the FISA court's assumed acceptance of parts of the Steele document (it was never referred to directly, nor were its allegations specifically recorded as being influential).

, and the claims from anti-Trump people whom never had any evidence of wrongdoing. Yet they investigated everyone connected with Trump and including using those lies to try to depose the dully elected POTUS... These false claims, which came from Russian officials close to Putin, ruined people's lives and with these lies you, and the rest of the left, continue to try to depose the dully elected POTUS.

The Steele document specifically fingered Mannafort, Cohen and Page. All who have been convicted in separate and later investigation and trials. In their regard, at least, there was something crooked going on.

Donald Trump was involved in over 3.500 legal suits prior to taking office. He isn't the person that the advertising makes him out to be. Legal affairs of Donald Trump From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Donald Trump's Companies Destroyed Emails in Defiance of Court Orders - Newsweek from 2016

There's a reason Trump is under investigation - crime. It may not ever have been him, but he is a magnet for it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

POST EXCERPTS from the trasncript

I don't have anything from a trasncript, but you can read the transcript, to which I linked.

Aid (already appropriated by Congress) was withheld. Fact.
Zelensky wanted to buy some Javelins in defense against Russia. Fact.
Trump says, "I would like you to do us a favor, though" in digging up dirt on Biden, his political opponent, as a condition. Fact.

However, Biden CLEARLY

This is not about Biden. This is about Trump. The President of the US using a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent, by extortion, in exchange for aid appropriated by Congress, while his "personal attorney" is working to secure business deals in said country, two of his (Ukrainian) associates who have just been arrested for breaking US law, lmao. But nice try trying to change the narrative.

The same but but Biden as it was but but Hillary/Obama. We see through you.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Hmmm ... does the fact that Mitch and Lindsey have stated that Trump won't be found guilty in the Senate before Articles are even drafted mean that they're ... lefties?

Wow, this cognative dissonance world is cornfusing.

No, it means they have read the transcript.

a reply to: proximo

The transcript shows the President of the United States asking a foreign power to investigate a matter that targetted one of his most likely political opponents in the 2020 Election. The President of the United States then doubled down in public on the matter, removing any shred of a doubt.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: underwerks

That's some powerful left you got right there.

The same left that used RUSSIAN LIES to make you believe that POTUS Trump is colluding with the Russians and he must be a Russian puppet, and you ate the lies like they were chocolate cake. To this day you probably still believe these lies even when you know they came directly from RUSSIAN OFFICIALS... So, yeah they are pretty powerful indeed...

I have no idea what lies you are talking about since you didn't state them. You just pointed to some etherial lies that just sorta exist.

Here are the facts about Trump and Russia.

• During the campaign Russia attempted to influence the election by hacking voting systems and releasing over a million social media posts per day to sway it in Trump's favor.
  
• There were over 250 contacts between members of the Trump campaign and Russia. Some of the contacts were explicitly looking for dirt on Hillary Clinton
  
• The Mueller report states there was not sufficient evidence to prove a conspiracy due to members of the Trump campaign destroying evidence.
  
• While president Trump has revealed classified information to Russian ambassadors, hidden his conversations with Putin, had secret one on one meetings with Putin, and had his translators destroy all evidence.
  
• Trump took Putin's side over that of the US Intelligence agencies and recently that of Senate Republicans.
  

Totally nothing to worry about between Trump and Russia though........

originally posted by: proximo

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Hmmm ... does the fact that Mitch and Lindsey have stated that Trump won't be found guilty in the Senate before Articles are even drafted mean that they're ... lefties?

Wow, this cognative dissonance world is cornfusing.

No, it means they have read the transcript.

To begin with, the transcript is just a rough transcript not word for word. But even with that we have this exchange.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY: I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

THE PRESIDENT: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.

The Ukrainian president asks about more weaponry to defend against Russia and Trump's response is "I would like you to do us a favor though." The Ukrainian president asked for help to defend against Russia and our president says "Do me a favor, investigate this conspiracy theory that started on 4chan.

If that was it, sure, this is a nothing burger. But that isn't it. For one there is are multiple whistleblowers claiming that this was part of a quid pro quo. Additionally, two Trump appointees evaluated the whistleblower claims and found them credible and urgent. Then we have text messages between career diplomats complaining about a quid pro quo. The only guy defending those questions is Trump appointee Sonderland. He is expected to testify to Congress that the text in which he defended it, came directly from Trump's mouth.

So what about the money? Well, the Trump administration did put a hold on that money and told aides to lie to Congress if they were asked about it. Aides were told if Congress asked why the money hadn't been released to simply say it was due to "interagency processes".

Also, this doesn't appear to be the first time the Trump admin has leaned on Ukraine. Last year, Ukraine abruptly shut down the prosecutor who was investigating Manafort. One day, that prosecutor had his ability to issue subpoena's or gather any evidence in the Manafort case shut down. This prosecutor was working hand in hand with the Mueller investigation. Congress asked for clarification from Ukraine but never even received a response. Later though, Ukrainian lawmakers said the reason was because they feared upsetting Trump.

In May 2018, the New York Times broke a significant story about Ukraine that did not receive great attention at the time: The nation’s chief prosecutor had halted cooperation with special counsel Robert Mueller’s Trump-Russia investigation and had essentially shut down four Ukrainian criminal inquiries related to Mueller’s work. Ukrainian lawmakers said their government took these steps out of fear of upsetting Trump and jeopardizing a deal that would supply Ukraine Javelin anti-tank missiles for its ongoing conflict with Russia, which occupied portions of the country.

LINK

But yeah, totally nothing at all there.