Democrats and socialism are NOT the problem

a reply to: Bluntone22


I do not totally disagree with you..



Except for what is conservative and liberal has changed over the decades...


If what was considered conservative and liberal OR republican and Democrat over those decades , stayed static.. then maybe you would have a point..


But they have not, so it is irrelevant..


The average Liberal 40 years ago was cool with interracial marriage... as long as it isn’t my daughter
Where the average conservatives were still discussing if it should be considered socially acceptable at all..


This generation conservatives are cool with interracial marriage... “as long as it is not my child.”..

Where now liberals just think it is 100% ok even if it is their family member.

And you can track that trend over every generation, on almost every issue..


It is not “if your young and not a liberal you have no heart and if your old and not a conservative you have no head..”



What was liberal last generation is conservative this generation... and always has been..


Conservatives NEVER win long term on any issue by definition.. because there is no issue we have down perfectly.. there is always room for improvement..


So if you are the side trying to CONSERVE a broken system, someone will come along with a new idea and replace you..
And literally by definition, all new ideas are liberal ideas..

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: dfnj2015

The result is the American people are gouged into poverty by the pricing fixing of wages, products, and services. The evidence is right here in this graph:

Very very few people are in poverty due to a series of unfortunate event. Many are there because of choice and mindset.

We live in a country that you are free to get any job, you can move. You can get an education. You can forage.
The problem is that too many people are lazy and would rather complain.

You know that show undercover boss. I think they should do the reverse. Undercover CEO etc. Let people on the bottom rung see what it is like to be a CEO or executive. What they will find is that a lot of those people just work. That is all they do day in and day out. Many work every weekend for years on end. Many never take a vacation. many have failed marriage and bad family relations because they put work before all else. This is what many little guys don't see. They only see that hey that CEO makes $$$ = not fair.

Let me give you an example....

Today in the Wall Street Journal there is an article about the prevalence of 7 year car loans now. The feature a guy... 22 years old who is paying $500/mo for a Honda Accord. It says at one point, it was 25% of his take home pay, so the guy was bringing home $2k/mo. He paid $27,000 for the car, but the loan is $36,000 because he had to roll over the other loans on two other cars that he still owed.

WTF?


This is the type of guy who will be complaining he can't get ahead. Well, no sh*t sherlock.

originally posted by: revswim
We are the richest country on earth. Poor people in our country have access to food, clothes, housing, etc. We have so much food in this country that the big problem isnt people starving to death, it's that people are eating too much. You want to get rid of the economic system that lifted our entire society up, created all this technological advancemet and wealth in order to adopt the failed economic policy that makes countries poorer. The policy that makes people wait in line for bread and there's never enough to feed the people. In the US you can buy bread for a dollar or two. In many other countries people are starving to death. If you really think poor Americans are worse off than most countries, you dont know much about the rest of the world. Hate to use the word privilege but thats basically it.

Yup. By global standards, America really doesn't have any "poor" people....

a reply to: Edumakated

I tried to look up the actual stats and Forbes is claiming it is 50/50 self made/inherited..


But here is the kicker..


“Forbes named Kylie Jenner the youngest self-made billionaire ever “


If Kylie Jenner is considered self made... then damn those are some loose requirements.. so I am super skeptical about their math..

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Edumakated

I tried to look up the actual stats and Forbes is claiming it is 50/50 self made/inherited..


But here is the kicker..


“Forbes named Kylie Jenner the youngest self-made billionaire ever “


If Kylie Jenner is considered self made... then damn those are some loose requirements.. so I am super skeptical about their math..

Even 50% isn't bad...

Yeah, Kylie might be the youngest billionaire, but she most definitely was born on third base. Not quite rags to riches story.

a reply to: JustJohnny

I've never claimed the American political or economic system is perfect and shouldn't be adjusted as things change. Far from it.

But I do say that if you haven't experienced other ways of life you can't really say something else is better.
I've seen real poverty.
It's a disturbing sight.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Edumakated

I don’t think the majority of extremely successful people are self made...


I agree with most self made mega successful people, but that is assuming the vast majority of the wealthy and powerful did not just inherit their wealth and have never done a day of actual labor in their lives..

I bet I can find some stats...
For example, do you think Trump has ever changed a tire, or driven a nail??
Hell no..
He was born into millions, his daddy gave him more millions and an already successful company at 18 or 21.. I forget..
Who couldn’t be successful under those conditions..
But it is irrelevant..

The only reason that I can believe, that you believe that is that you don't know very many successful people. Every single one I know are self made. Every single one I know are workaholics.

Sure Trump is rich but what about Obama, or Ronald Reagan, or Clinton. They were all regular working folk.

money.usnews.com...

A 2017 survey from Fidelity Investments found that 88 percent of millionaires are self-made. Only 12 percent inherited significant money (at least 10 percent of their wealth), and most did not grow up in exclusive country club neighborhoods. The majority of millionaires went to college and are married or partnered.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I would say that's a very narrow minded and uninformed point of view.

People do not choose to be poor. No one does.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: JAGStorm

I would say that's a very narrow minded and uninformed point of view.

People do not choose to be poor. No one does.

There is a difference between poor and broke. Yes people do choose to be poor. It is a choice made up of many small choices.
Examples:

Drop out of school - choice
have multiple kids - choice
buy more than you can afford - choice
do drugs/drink - choice
take unnecessary risks - choice
choose not to work, or only work easy jobs
Don't improve your work skills - choice


Not a choice:
major medical issues not due to drugs/drinking or risky behavior.

There is a great documentary on Seattle called Seattle is dying.
You should watch it. It talks about homelessness and how it can never be solved until we admit what the problem is.
Poverty is the same way. What is the root cause? It is not just from CEO's making a lot of money.

a reply to: grey580

Not to "rush to defense" but I think her statement has merit. It's not a black and white but I don't believe she meant it that way.

To broaden the issue beyond monetary concerns, it's fair to say stubbornness and hubris prevent a great many people from improving their situation. (Spiritually, emotionally, etc.) Of course it can be true here, too.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

(Not that I don't think lots of people have perfectly valid reasons to resent forced participation in the labor force.)

a reply to: dfnj2015

Do you most who makes the most out of every dollar spent on a gallon of gas?

Government in taxes. Look it up. For someone who works his guts out that shouldn't be hard for you to do.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
There is a difference between poor and broke. Yes people do choose to be poor. It is a choice made up of many small choices.

Examples:

Drop out of school - choice
have multiple kids - choice
buy more than you can afford - choice
do drugs/drink - choice
take unnecessary risks - choice
choose not to work, or only work easy jobs
Don't improve your work skills - choice


Not a choice:
major medical issues not due to drugs/drinking or risky behavior.

I don't really disagree with you all that much, but there are numerous reasons people can slip through the cracks in life. Ugly things happen in real life that don't fit neat little narratives of how American Life is supposed to go; people get bounced out of society before they really have a chance in it.

I have not seen anyone address this angle of the issue.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Yep, and I have a perfect example of the sort of thing you're alluding to. My mom likely would have bet money my sister was going to turn out more successful than me, but she's not, and here's the reason why:

Sister and bro-in-law's car breaks down. Why don't they fix it? bro-in-law's brother is a mechanic and can do the work for them at no charge if they get the part. Oh ... they don't have the money. So my folks bail them out and write them a check for what the part costs.

Weeks later. Check is not cashed, car is not fixed, sister and bro-in-law continue to bum rides from anyone and everyone who will cart them and their kids around.

There is no reason for it. They aren't even out any of their own money getting the car fixed. My folks wrote the check for them!

But they continually make stupid choices like that and continue to be too poor to handle their own business.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: JAGStorm

I would say that's a very narrow minded and uninformed point of view.

People do not choose to be poor. No one does.

There is a difference between poor and broke. Yes people do choose to be poor. It is a choice made up of many small choices.
Examples:

Drop out of school - choice
have multiple kids - choice
buy more than you can afford - choice
do drugs/drink - choice
take unnecessary risks - choice
choose not to work, or only work easy jobs
Don't improve your work skills - choice


Not a choice:
major medical issues not due to drugs/drinking or risky behavior.

There is a great documentary on Seattle called Seattle is dying.
You should watch it. It talks about homelessness and how it can never be solved until we admit what the problem is.
Poverty is the same way. What is the root cause? It is not just from CEO's making a lot of money.

Life is a series of choices. Sometimes all it takes is one bad choice to set you back decades or put your in a hole you can't dig out.

I find a lot of people are unable to see beyond their immediate situation. They can't logically piece together steps to improve their situation with a long term goal in mind. All they can do is think about that is going on that day or the day after.

The thing to is that success does not necessarily mean rich. For most people, just being able to pay your bills and having a healthy well adjusted family is success.

It is quite easy to not be poor in the US.

IIRC, many studies have been done that saying that you have less than a 2% chance of being poor if you just:

1) Avoid having kids out wedlock
2) Graduate high school
3) Get a full time job, any job

a reply to: FyreByrd

You put words in my mouth saying corporate socialism is good. Where did I say that. I did say socialism is bad. How you read more into it I dont know. As far as treatment for addiction that shouldn't be my problem should it. Did I put the drugs in front of them? Did I make them use them? Do I waste there welfare money on them(part of the abuse I mentioned)? And as far as being "lucky" I got a house bought and paid for while make about 2 bucks over minimum wage. Was no luck to it, just smart planning I was taught in school. That was before the bs they teach now. And your ??? Anyone has a chance to make there own buisness, there are even "socialist" programs to help with it if you know where to look.

a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

I don't really disagree with you all that much, but there are numerous reasons people can slip through the cracks in life. Ugly things happen in real life that don't fit neat little narratives of how American Life is supposed to go; people get bounced out of society before they really have a chance in it. I have not seen anyone address this angle of the issue.

I completely agree with this. I'm actually for welfare and social supports, for people that slip through the cracks.

I just think we have accepted way too much. When people have made a way of life out of social supports it is no longer helping them or society.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: dfnj2015

The result is the American people are gouged into poverty by the pricing fixing of wages, products, and services. The evidence is right here in this graph:

Very very few people are in poverty due to a series of unfortunate event. Many are there because of choice and mindset.

We live in a country that you are free to get any job, you can move. You can get an education. You can forage.
The problem is that too many people are lazy and would rather complain.

You know that show undercover boss. I think they should do the reverse. Undercover CEO etc. Let people on the bottom rung see what it is like to be a CEO or executive. What they will find is that a lot of those people just work. That is all they do day in and day out. Many work every weekend for years on end. Many never take a vacation. many have failed marriage and bad family relations because they put work before all else. This is what many little guys don't see. They only see that hey that CEO makes $$$ = not fair.

Let me give you an example....

Today in the Wall Street Journal there is an article about the prevalence of 7 year car loans now. The feature a guy... 22 years old who is paying $500/mo for a Honda Accord. It says at one point, it was 25% of his take home pay, so the guy was bringing home $2k/mo. He paid $27,000 for the car, but the loan is $36,000 because he had to roll over the other loans on two other cars that he still owed.

WTF?


This is the type of guy who will be complaining he can't get ahead. Well, no sh*t sherlock.

If you hand out heroin to grade school kids you should not be surprised when they become addicts.

If TV advertising did not work people would not spend billions of dollars on it manipulating people to make bad decisions in favor of the advertiser. If the corporations would stop selling cars with advertisements based on emotions then we would not have so many heroin addicts of debt.

a reply to: dfnj2015

I like communism, I think it's great.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: DictionaryOfExcuses

I don't really disagree with you all that much, but there are numerous reasons people can slip through the cracks in life. Ugly things happen in real life that don't fit neat little narratives of how American Life is supposed to go; people get bounced out of society before they really have a chance in it. I have not seen anyone address this angle of the issue.

I completely agree with this. I'm actually for welfare and social supports, for people that slip through the cracks.

I just think we have accepted way too much. When people have made a way of life out of social supports it is no longer helping them or society.

Maybe we need to hire some people to work with the down trodden in getting their lives in order with coaching and job training. We spend trillions of dollars on the military but we can't help each other get out the hole of despair.

a reply to: dfnj2015

If the corporations would stop selling cars with advertisements based on emotions then we would not have so many heroin addicts of debt.

Choice - turn off tv