Biblical Christianity is not socialist ...

Yes, it's kinda like this......the old game was Satan telling Eve she could be godlike....questioning did God really say..........

The game now is the same one......

Following Scripturally is best.....judge what is what by comparing and searching Scripture....or fall.

a reply to: incoserv

I do agree. I just think the same is true for capitalism.

Earlier today i saw an package boy, delievering packages. That guy just threw the packages on ground, not caring if he was breaking anything. Why? Cause he only works to survive, he doesnt get rich or earn more if his company is doing good, so he has no incentive do a good job.

So just like with the experiement the professor did, this guy doesnt care to do a good job, cause he is not the one gaining anything from it, so why do all the hard work for others to get rich at?

Capitalism may on paper be the best of the systems, but in reality it is just the same. ALL capitalist still pay taxes (socialism) and still have goverment control. We need a modern version of it.

a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

The difference is choice. No one is forcing you to work in a free market system or a capitalist one. Similarly, no one dictates what you must work at either. In a command economy, that is all dictated to you: your job, how much you work, where, and what you will receive for it.

It's like the idea behind charity.

I'll give you an example to illustrate.

I go and get a latte on my way to work most mornings. It takes a $5 bill let's say (not really, but that's what I'll say for this). That $5 bill is symbolic of the worth of goods or services my labor produced for some portion of my productive time. We use currency as a hard representation of such things to create a universal exchange within our American market. Now, I chose what I skills I would be trained with, I selected what labor I would work at, and I decided what use I would put this portion of the value of that labor.

Now, this particular morning after choosing to spend that money on a latte, I see a bell ringer outside the shop.

At this point, I am confronted with a new choice. I can choose to keep on going and get my latte, or I can donate the value of my labor to charity. It can then be used to help those less fortunate than I am at this point in time. There are certainly those who feel that voting for the government to raise taxes, taking from the value of my labor before I see any of it to use on social programs is charity. But it's not. I never have to face that choice to take the $5 out of my pocket and actually, physically, voluntarily give it up. It's all surgically and antiseptically done before I even touch my wages for my labor under the tax system. No chance for me to get greedy or fail at all.

When it's done that way, it encourages a "I gave at the office" mentality. People feel virtuous when they truly did nothing and feel less like they need to actually personally sacrifice.

The first system being talked about supposes that moral and Godly people, a truly Christian society would always and inevitably take the right choice to give as needed without qualm and without stinting. Of course, that is not the world we live in, and it never can be.

Communism and socialism are human attempts to use government compulsion throughout the economy to control the economy to create that perfect world. But of course, none of it is genuine, all of it is resented and most of it will be subtly fought by those living under it. People resent having their agency of choice removed even when it means that they corrupt things and make bad or even evil choices. And even within the system, they find ways to corrupt it and then because everyone is trapped inside that system with no way out, the evil touches everyone; everyone suffers.

Srry, but the god of bible is neither capitalist or communist. It is more imperialism. Lord of lords, king of kings. Why is everyone so caught up in communist/capitalism in reality we had imperialism in the past. There are bad kings and good kings. The bible is suppose to be about being good kings/lords. The way we see US is doing, they are directly opposite becoming an occult of Christianity. That is called Extremism just like ISIS of Muslims.
"Those who don't learn history will repeat."

Just to be clear. Christians are to help those who are in need. Those who are not lazy, but still can not make ends meet. My church sends a large group of people to Mexico each year to build homes for poor families in need. I help pay for materials. We build nice homes, and the families help, and are very thankful. I also give to charities to feed the homeless right here in America. I work hard in a steel mill, but don't keep all my money. I have enough left over to help others. That's the duty of all who serve the Lord. Im not here to brag. Just full disclosure

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan
a reply to: incoserv

The suicide, was just a bad example. I was just trying to say that i dont think we will get some extra punishment and send to hell when we die.
I like your take on the heaven/hell thing. I just think that the "hell" we feel from our "sins" are more present in our current life. But it could very well be how hell will be.

It is very late where iam at, so iam gonna call it a night.
S&F for a great thread

Thank you for your thoughtful input!

originally posted by: makemap
Srry, but the god of bible is neither capitalist or communist. It is more imperialism. Lord of lords, king of kings. Why is everyone so caught up in communist/capitalism in reality we had imperialism in the past. There are bad kings and good kings. The bible is suppose to be about being good kings/lords. The way we see US is doing, they are directly opposite becoming an occult of Christianity. That is called Extremism just like ISIS of Muslims.
"Those who don't learn history will repeat."

I agree 100%. But the reality is that we have to have some form of economic regime to manage the allocation of resources in this world in which we live. It's not a question of whether the Bible promotes capitalism or socialism. I already said that I do not claim that the Bible is a capitalist manifesto. But neither is it socialist.

The question which system is going to work the best in this fallen world where people most always tend toward selfishness.

Actually, the biggest benefit of capitalism as I see it is that it appeals, in its rawest form, to a sense of selfishness - which every living organism in this world possesses. If I really understand what's best for me. I'll see that it's ultimately what's best for everybody.

That kid that someone used as an example, he threw the package down. Might have broken something. If he does it enough times, people will call and complain, and he'll be fired. If he treats the packages with respect, takes care of his customers, he'll do well and it'll benefit him.
:

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Which wraps back around to humanism. It's all about putting something else (ultimately anything, doesn't matter what) in the place of God.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Just to be clear. Christians are to help those who are in need. Those who are not lazy, but still can not make ends meet. My church sends a large group of people to Mexico each year to build homes for poor families in need. I help pay for materials. We build nice homes, and the families help, and are very thankful. I also give to charities to feed the homeless right here in America. I work hard in a steel mill, but don't keep all my money. I have enough left over to help others. That's the duty of all who serve the Lord. Im not here to brag. Just full disclosure

Can I challenge you a bit? This is not to criticize your or say you're doing wrong; I appreciate your willingness to help others.

I live in Mexico, have done over 25 years of mission work, over 15 of those here. Help like what you are talking about, if not in very close relationship with a local church that knows people and knows needs, can actually do more harm than good. I've seen this. I hope that you all are connecting with local churches that have healthy relationships with local people and know where the real needs are.

Giving money is good, and I'm not saying you're doing wrong, but if you are able to get personally involved and are not up to this point, I challenge you to do so. Even if it's just out in front of a local convenience store.

I'm probably the only elder of my church who's ever been mistaken for a homeless person. I was sitting on a sidewalk with a homeless guy, sharing a couple of hot dogs once and getting to know him. A sweet lady walked up and gave us each a dollar. I gave mine to him.

a reply to: incoserv

Another benefit of capitalism that you might be missing is that it's not a governmental system. It's highly decentralized. Ideally, it's individuals acting in their own interests as you say.

In a world like ours where people are acting in their own fallen natures, one bad apple can hurt quite a few people who interact with him if he behaves with dishonesty in a corrupt manner in his dealings.

But consider, in a system like socialism where the government controls the entire economy, everyone is exposed to and damaged by the corruption. There is no escape from it.

So the decentralized nature of capitalism doesn't end corruption and bad dealing, but it does isolate it and help keep the damage contained and minimized ideally because no one is forced to deal with a bad person if they know who that person is in advance. Contrast that with the other where no one escapes it because the law keeps you trapped inside the system.

Of course, in a world that is rapidly shedding morality as an old, outdated trapping of an evil, white oppressive system, it gets hard to avoid bad dealers because the system of free markets rely on moral dealers and personal restraint and integrity which implies a moral people.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Just to be clear. Christians are to help those who are in need. Those who are not lazy, but still can not make ends meet. My church sends a large group of people to Mexico each year to build homes for poor families in need. I help pay for materials. We build nice homes, and the families help, and are very thankful. I also give to charities to feed the homeless right here in America. I work hard in a steel mill, but don't keep all my money. I have enough left over to help others. That's the duty of all who serve the Lord. Im not here to brag. Just full disclosure

Can I challenge you a bit? This is not to criticize your or say you're doing wrong; I appreciate your willingness to help others.

I live in Mexico, have done over 25 years of mission work, over 15 of those here. Help like what you are talking about, if not in very close relationship with a local church that knows people and knows needs, can actually do more harm than good. I've seen this. I hope that you all are connecting with local churches that have healthy relationships with local people and know where the real needs are.

Giving money is good, and I'm not saying you're doing wrong, but if you are able to get personally involved and are not up to this point, I challenge you to do so. Even if it's just out in front of a local convenience store.

I'm probably the only elder of my church who's ever been mistaken for a homeless person. I was sitting on a sidewalk with a homeless guy, sharing a couple of hot dogs once and getting to know him. A sweet lady walked up and gave us each a dollar. I gave mine to him.

We are in touch with local Evangelical churches in Mexico. They help us select the families with the most need. I may go sometime to help build, but it is difficult for me to leave. I work up to 12 hours a day, and have children and dogs here that need me here, so I do what I can. Ive actually worked up to 17 hours in a day. Im working in excess of 100 degrees temperatures right now. Right next to a giant open tank of hot sulfuric acid. Im not complaining though. I thank God for employment every evening , along with everything he gives me, both good and unpleasant. Its His will.

That would have embarrassed me if someone gave me money , and you did the right thing I don't spent a lot on clothes either. That's wise!

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

a reply to: incoserv

Marx has very valid criticisms of laissez faire capitalism. They can't be ignore if you have half a brain.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Just as I suspected! The Bible is evil and Satanic! You just proved it!

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

What was a rich man then ?
What was the "eye of a needle" ?
Most "rich men" of the time disregarded the Sabbath and even set up market in the Synagogues on the Sabbath.
The "eye of the needle was a very small passage into Jerusalem (and others) that allowed traders to enter the city after the main gates were closed at night. It only allowed for one human or camel at a time , and the camels had to kneel and crawl through.
So , not impossible for a "camel" to pass through the "eye of the needle".
Happened all the time.
All symbolic.
You gave me some information , and I am returning in kind.

Subjugation to God is about love for one another.

First we have got to have one god for all. That will be the new earth.

Revelation 21 New International Version (NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Of course, another common thread in discussions like this is the idea of love, and it's clear to me that we have very different ideas of what being loving and loving one another means too.

For myself, I take the perspective of a parent's love or something like it. But many take a far more permissive view where being loving means allowing people to go about their business as they choose in whatever seems to be making them happy even if we know inside they are walking wrong. It comes back to the modern idea of "do not judge" which is all about ignoring when another walks in sin (goes against God) in favor of allowing them to feel good about themselves.

Too often the modern conception of charity (and/or social programs) operate off this principle. Throw money at people without expecting them to address their own problems that keep them in a position to need those programs.

To truly help people and be loving, you have to deal with them individually and they have to want to be helped. It's a two way process. You give them support while they work on themselves. Ideally, at the end of it, they are fully functioning, self-supporting individuals. Sure, they may never be multi-millionaires, but at the end of the day, if they can cover their bills, buy their food, and put clothing on their backs, they're a whole person in society. Simply throwing money at them won't achieve that as it doesn't teach the skills necessary to create that state.

Of course, that last approach means implying those people are doing something wrong, and it does judge them to some degree.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Do you understand the meaning of those verses?