Biblical Christianity is not socialist ...

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

What was a rich man then ?
What was the "eye of a needle" ?
Most "rich men" of the time disregarded the Sabbath and even set up market in the Synagogues on the Sabbath.
The "eye of the needle was a very small passage into Jerusalem (and others) that allowed traders to enter the city after the main gates were closed at night. It only allowed for one human or camel at a time , and the camels had to kneel and crawl through.
So , not impossible for a "camel" to pass through the "eye of the needle".
Happened all the time.
All symbolic.
You gave me some information , and I am returning in kind.

That's good! Most people don't know that! Good job!

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

What was a rich man then ?
What was the "eye of a needle" ?
Most "rich men" of the time disregarded the Sabbath and even set up market in the Synagogues on the Sabbath.
The "eye of the needle was a very small passage into Jerusalem (and others) that allowed traders to enter the city after the main gates were closed at night. It only allowed for one human or camel at a time , and the camels had to kneel and crawl through.
So , not impossible for a "camel" to pass through the "eye of the needle".
Happened all the time.
All symbolic.
You gave me some information , and I am returning in kind.

That's good! Most people don't know that! Good job!

Amazing , the amount of tidbits one picks up during the course of a long lifetime.

It can be depending on how a state(or church) in practice has the authority, an decides how things are done without judicial proceedings, along with possible angry mob of fanatics claiming blasphemy(which is offence an a hate/thought crime to god, sound familar).

Like how the Americans brag about being innocent before proven guilty, where as in history people have been tried an executed for attempting differing believes or the radical believe of witchcraft, an saying yes or no Jesus meant one was still going to die. Just they won't be spit on like a lefty on trump supporters grave.

Alot Jews would actually admit that their religion does have communist ideals, where as communism actually completely reject religion an claims atheism as it own brain child.

Most, if not all religions do have communist/socialist ideals, but some also have monarchs themes too. Some never went to the extreme, like Buddhism for the most(yea they f up once or twice, but they dont have to wash their hand all the time).

a reply to: Specimen88

Again, it's all about choice vs. compulsion.

True socialism as it's understood in our world is about compulsion, government force. Faith is strictly about personal choice.

I have been very open here that I have no problem at all with people living in a socialist/communist manner so long as everyone in the group personally chooses that life and so long as they can come and go in or out of it as they choose.

a reply to: ketsuko

And here I thought it was all about helping the poor, rather then involving an Inquisition.

Like I said, it all about how much power a state or governing body has an without due process too. Regardless of their stance on politics, which is why your founding fathers wouldn't allow a union between church an state.

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I don’t think we can call socialism satanism, that’s a bit unfair.
Socialism is not worshipping government, it’s a system based on common wealth and sharing

Socialism in and of itself is not evil, the problem with any system is malevolence.
Put a human in charge of the perfect system and they will corrupt it

Christianity is a faith made to adapt to any society, within and also without, showing compassion and charity to those with less. Obviously not exposing oneself to destitution

I don’t think Christianity is a political ideology, don’t think Jesus ever expected to change the world, think He wanted to change individual hearts. We start with ourselves and love others

But as for the OPs comments, I agree, the bible is not a socialist manifesto

Societies that practice the morals of Christianity prosper. As they turn away from God, they falter and fall. They lose all freedom

Socialist societies can practice morals without faith but irrespective, socialism is not evil, people are evil
But the West is built on Christian values and once did prosper because of those values, I agree, but,
You don’t need God to be moral

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

What was a rich man then ?
What was the "eye of a needle" ?
Most "rich men" of the time disregarded the Sabbath and even set up market in the Synagogues on the Sabbath.
The "eye of the needle was a very small passage into Jerusalem (and others) that allowed traders to enter the city after the main gates were closed at night. It only allowed for one human or camel at a time , and the camels had to kneel and crawl through.
So , not impossible for a "camel" to pass through the "eye of the needle".
Happened all the time.
All symbolic.
You gave me some information , and I am returning in kind.

That’s so wrong, such a false statement and teaching
Nobody, rich or poor can enter the kingdom, nobody, wealth doesn’t make you worthy, destitution, sin, brokenness, repentance, nothing makes a person worth, only Jesus makes a person worthy.
There is no gate in Jerusalem that you describe, no way for camels to enter, no “eye of the needle”, unless you can show me the evidence for it

It’s a false teaching and a false story made up with false information, please prove otherwise

Jesus is the only way in, not wealth

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Yes, taxes are a form of theft.

Or enforced charity, perspectives?

"Charity by force" ceases to be charity by definition.

If that's the fiction you need to tell yourself to feel better about having something stolen from you by force, then so be it, but I don't kid myself with what it actually is.

Let's get real. Those burglars climbing into the window by night to take your stuff are also performing "charity by force" too. They're taking what you have that they don't and think they need.

Subjective
I see paying taxes as a system to benefit the society I live in and am happy to pay my taxes

We disagree, I would pay them even if it wasn’t enforced, for good roads, free healthcare, clean streets, safe police presence, public sanitation, stuff we have in Australia unlike the US, welfare

I am happy to pay my taxes
Our system is not perfect but nothing is

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

Yes, taxes are a form of theft.

Or enforced charity, perspectives?

Well, Jesus, when asked about paying taxes into the corrupt Roman system, gave what I've always considered a somewhat elusive answer:

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Paul kind of went there as well, in Romans 13:1:

"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

I'd say that there is an uneasy alliance between biblical Christianity and the state. The bible acknowledges the need for some system of government to stave off anarchy, but it also acknowledges the fallen nature of mankind and the fact that we cannot do it right.

The American Revolution was oft referred to by the English powers as "The Presbyterian War" because Presbyterian Christians (in the interest of disclosure, I am Presbyterian, BTW) because the Presbyterians were a driving force behind it. There was a biblical perspective that drove the colonists to rebellion against their government. Is that a contradiction? Is it ever right for a Christian to refuse to pay taxes? All topics for another thread (with apologies to NoFearsEqualsFreeMan), but ideas that this line of thought bring up.

Jesus asked who’s image was on the coin
Caesar’s
Image is very descriptive, we are created in God’s image, render money to Caesar as money is worldly, render ourselves to Christ as we are His image
Jews would have understood the statement very clearly
Wealth is worldly
We are children of God created in His image
The image statement wasn’t about money but about being worthy to God as individuals

As I understand

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Socialism is Satanism.

It is a worship of government, instead of God

This is why Antifa behaves Satanic. They are

I thought that Satanism, at least the Anton LaVey kind, was highly 'acquisitive'.

Self-indulgent, hedonistic, materialist, amoral, profit motivated, capitalism.

Satanic behavior includes many things

This is from Proverbs

Proverbs 14:12

“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”

Verily, I can, hitherto, do in like wise:

Matthew 19:23-25

"Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

What was a rich man then ?
What was the "eye of a needle" ?
Most "rich men" of the time disregarded the Sabbath and even set up market in the Synagogues on the Sabbath.
The "eye of the needle was a very small passage into Jerusalem (and others) that allowed traders to enter the city after the main gates were closed at night. It only allowed for one human or camel at a time , and the camels had to kneel and crawl through.
So , not impossible for a "camel" to pass through the "eye of the needle".
Happened all the time.
All symbolic.
You gave me some information , and I am returning in kind.

That’s so wrong, such a false statement and teaching
Nobody, rich or poor can enter the kingdom, nobody, wealth doesn’t make you worthy, destitution, sin, brokenness, repentance, nothing makes a person worth, only Jesus makes a person worthy.
There is no gate in Jerusalem that you describe, no way for camels to enter, no “eye of the needle”, unless you can show me the evidence for it

It’s a false teaching and a false story made up with false information, please prove otherwise

Jesus is the only way in, not wealth

Prove it wrong
Look it up
Always research BEFORE you post,

Denying ignorance
Why ?
Some folks are set on posting BEFORE they know

a reply to: Gothmog

Why, how, I can’t prove a negative

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org...



But I asked you to prove the “needles eye”
You won’t. Can’t?

Worse, you won’t can’t even accept you may be wrong

No, you would rather believe wealthy people can’t go to heaven, you truly think that?
Are you a Christian?
Have you ever studied theology?

Prove your statement, if it’s true, prove it

Vine’s Concise Dictionary of Bible Words has the following information under the entry of “needle:”

“Note: The idea of applying ‘the needle’s eye’ to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord’s object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. An attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet [0.61 meter] square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine.”


Oh and that scary face emoji, really intimidating.
Now ante up or fold

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Gothmog

Why, how, I can’t prove a negative

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org...

But I asked you to prove the “needles eye”
You won’t. Can’t?

Worse, you won’t can’t even accept you may be wrong

No, you would rather believe wealthy people can’t go to heaven, you truly think that?
Are you a Christian?
Have you ever studied theology?

Prove your statement, if it’s true, prove it

Vine’s Concise Dictionary of Bible Words has the following information under the entry of “needle:”

“Note: The idea of applying ‘the needle’s eye’ to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord’s object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. An attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet [0.61 meter] square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine.”


Oh and that scary face emoji, really intimidating.
Now ante up or fold

You can prove a negative.
Why should I have to prove anything ?
You stated I was wrong
Now , prove it.
That's the way a debate works.

Shhh...I have pictures of the one in Jerusalem
And , here is some info online
With pictures
Jerusalem: The Eye of the Needle Gate
Game over

A camel, even drunk, can a walk straight line, where as a rich man would miss the point, an still wouldn't be happy if he did get it.

a reply to: incoserv
I agree with your verdict, and I'll just add a couple of basic points which you haven't mentioned.
On the face of it, there seems to be a similarity between the teaching of Jesus and socialism, because they want people to be treated properly. That will be the argument that Christian socialists put forward.
The difference is that the teaching of Jesus looks to change the way that individual people behave, following the demands of conscience and God.
Socialism is about improving society by changing "social structures". The New Testament is not interested in social structures.
Jesus met a demand for him to enforce justice by saying "Who made me a judge or divider over you?" (Luke ch12 v14), and telling people to worry about their relationship with God rather than their property.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Gothmog

Why, how, I can’t prove a negative

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org...

But I asked you to prove the “needles eye”
You won’t. Can’t?

Worse, you won’t can’t even accept you may be wrong

No, you would rather believe wealthy people can’t go to heaven, you truly think that?
Are you a Christian?
Have you ever studied theology?

Prove your statement, if it’s true, prove it

Vine’s Concise Dictionary of Bible Words has the following information under the entry of “needle:”

“Note: The idea of applying ‘the needle’s eye’ to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord’s object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. An attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet [0.61 meter] square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine.”


Oh and that scary face emoji, really intimidating.
Now ante up or fold

You can prove a negative.
Why should I have to prove anything ?
You stated I was wrong
Now , prove it.
That's the way a debate works.

I just did, how did you miss all that
It’s not a debate, loose the scary face emoji and put a self representative clown emoji on your posts

My whole post proved you are talking nonsense or at least repeating someone else’s nonsense

Read the links, watch the YouTube video, they explain you are wrong
Unbelievable...,😏🙄

a reply to: Raggedyman
Shhh...I have pictures of the one in Jerusalem
And , here is some info online
With pictures
Jerusalem: The Eye of the Needle Gate
Game over

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Gothmog

Why, how, I can’t prove a negative

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org...

But I asked you to prove the “needles eye”
You won’t. Can’t?

Worse, you won’t can’t even accept you may be wrong

No, you would rather believe wealthy people can’t go to heaven, you truly think that?
Are you a Christian?
Have you ever studied theology?

Prove your statement, if it’s true, prove it

Vine’s Concise Dictionary of Bible Words has the following information under the entry of “needle:”

“Note: The idea of applying ‘the needle’s eye’ to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord’s object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. An attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet [0.61 meter] square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine.”


Oh and that scary face emoji, really intimidating.
Now ante up or fold

You can prove a negative.
Why should I have to prove anything ?
You stated I was wrong
Now , prove it.
That's the way a debate works.

Awesome, “The Best Travel Deal Blog” so proud of you gothmog, what a great resource for biblical studies of ancient and near east culture, a travel blog, blown away I am by your theological resource
I am in awe of your superior googleing skills and fine choice of websites to reference, live the photo and references on that site as well

Actually, I am not, a bit embarrassed for you and your attempt at justifying stupidity

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: Raggedyman
Shhh...I have pictures of the one in Jerusalem
And , here is some info online
With pictures
Jerusalem: The Eye of the Needle Gate
Game over

So you believe a travel blog writer selling holidays in Israel is to be trusted, dear god man
Minor clarification. While the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD, the city of Jerusalem retained its general street plan until 135 AD. In 135 AD, after the Bar Jakova Revolt, the already damaged city was razed to the ground. In its place, a Greek city called Aelia Capitolina was put in its place.
As such, when Constantine's mother, Helena visited the city in the 300s, there was nothing left, except new settlements which bore no relation to the extant city. This why Golgotha, for example - the outskirts of the town in the day - are, if you believe Helena, now inside the Church of the Holy Sepelchure, smack dab in the center of the city.
Indeed, the city itself has migrated over time. The "City of David," extends south of the current city walls. That one would now exit the "Dung Gate" to go to where David's palace was shows how fluid city layouts can be.
The Temple, which was at the northern end of the city, is now central to it. The "beautiful gate" (or the "Golden Gate", next to the Temple) was sealed off in 1541, and most of the existing walls date to the Ottomans, built in the 1500s.
As such, if there ever was an "eye of the Needle" gate, (which in my mind is highly doubtful) it certainly no longer exists today. Additionally, any understanding of where the gate was in relationship to the city would be of no use, because there is no context for it.
Update
The Damascus Gate has been the historic main entrance to the city. The actual edifice, however dates to 1547, and was built on the ruins of a 2nd Century AD gate,
--Affable Geek

christianity.stackexchange.com...

But in your defence I guess, there is a travel blog writer and a picture so it must be true, google travel blog writers says so, they don’t lie

Please stop goth, I will make you look more foolish and it’s not fair on you

a reply to: ketsuko

When all submit to the true god and don't sin wouldn't we have an excellent functioning society? That is what is eventually prophesied to come.

Perhaps a utopian society is not possible on the current earth where Satan is not yet bound in the bottomless pit.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Gothmog

Why, how, I can’t prove a negative

forwhatsaiththescriptures.org...

But I asked you to prove the “needles eye”
You won’t. Can’t?

Worse, you won’t can’t even accept you may be wrong

No, you would rather believe wealthy people can’t go to heaven, you truly think that?
Are you a Christian?
Have you ever studied theology?

Prove your statement, if it’s true, prove it

Vine’s Concise Dictionary of Bible Words has the following information under the entry of “needle:”

“Note: The idea of applying ‘the needle’s eye’ to small gates seems to be a modern one; there is no ancient trace of it. The Lord’s object in the statement is to express human impossibility and there is no need to endeavor to soften the difficulty by taking the needle to mean anything more than the ordinary instrument. An attempt is sometimes made to explain the words as a reference to the small door, a little over 2 feet [0.61 meter] square, in the large heavy gate of a walled city. This mars the figure and receives no justification from the language and traditions of Palestine.”


Oh and that scary face emoji, really intimidating.
Now ante up or fold

You can prove a negative.
Why should I have to prove anything ?
You stated I was wrong
Now , prove it.
That's the way a debate works.

Awesome, “The Best Travel Deal Blog” so proud of you gothmog, what a great resource for biblical studies of ancient and near east culture, a travel blog, blown away I am by your theological resource
I am in awe of your superior googleing skills and fine choice of websites to reference, live the photo and references on that site as well

Actually, I am not, a bit embarrassed for you and your attempt at justifying stupidity

That was a start.
Do your own research
As I stated "Research BEFORE you post"
Or , continue in ignorance
I care not.
Game over , no more replies