We Are Dead To The Law - We Are Delivered From The Law

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

what I find great about Romans 7-8 is that I can now obey the law without the resulting death and sin. Because my salvation is in Christ and once my soul is not longer connected to my flesh following the law is for good living and not for salvation. look what it says about a saved man he can serve Christ with his mind and can now follow law without any resulting sin and death.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

All of what I am not sure if I am getting it across, but all the ten commandments but Sabbath observance was taught by Paul. There is now a place where we can do those laws without any sin and death that normally came by the law. We are free from the result of observing law of Moses, which is the recognition of sin and ts resulting in death. For the Christian it is life.

If everyone could live by the ten our world would be a better place. When a majority of people followed them in America you could leave keys in your car, houses unlocked, you didn't need to worry about your children when they walked to the store or for their safety at school. Today the majority live by what ever one feels is right in his own eyes. So it is messed up. Judges is a great example of a man, a world or a nation that lives that way.

Hebrews 4:3-4  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.  4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Hebrews 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

That word rest in verse 9 is originally the Greek Word, Sabbatismos, which means, a keeping Sabbath. Paul CERTAINLY taught that we should keep the Sabbath. Those who have faith keep the Sabbath, not those who do not have faith. Those who do not have faith, doubt whether God will take care of them if they keep the Sabbath or not. Every person who was healed on the Sabbath was already keeping it holy. They were not breaking it, claiming they got some higher good out of doing so.

originally posted by: bally001
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I have always had trouble rendering the scriptures with regards the sexes. An example is what was contained in the video. Have a slow look at the video again. The laws are aimed at men. They make women look like the temptresses batting their eyelids. Do not covert them.

Men, "Don't behave badly." Thou shalt not covert thy neighbors wife. How about, in the interests of today's sexuality there is, "Thou shalt not covert thy neighbors partner."

The scriptures were written in the days of men, sure. Time to adjust. Either rewrite the commandments to include women or then Christianity is lost. Makes out that men are the evil doers and women are their temptation. That's my thoughts.

Kind regards,

bally

This kind of talk has no place on this thread. Topic, please.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
The point of "dead to the law" is that we and the law are separated. Paul begins Romans ch7 with the analogy of marriage- once one partner (either partner) is dead, they are no longer married.
There's also a useful distinction in Romans ch3 v27 between "the law of works", which no longer applies, and "the law of faith". The "law of works" is another term for the Mosaic written code. Being under the law of faith is another way of saying "we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit" (Romans ch7 v6). You musn't be one of those people who discard the Holy Spirit of God because they prefer to live in the shackles of the written code.

Actually, you should live by the "written code". If thou shalt not covet, and thou shalt not steal, are a problem to you, and are "shackles" to you, then you should reconsider what spirit is guiding you. To serve the law in the newness of spirit means just that -> We serve it in the newness of spirit. Jesus taught us "thou shalt not commit adultery" was to be meant in regards to the heart and mind as well. We serve the law in the newness of spirit.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
You are using the phrase "in spirit" metaphorically, which is the modern (slightly debased) way. What Paul means is something much more literal, that we should be guided by the Spirit of God, the same Spirit which inspired the prophets and which was given to Jesus at his baptism.

Then we are to be guided by the Spirit instead of by the written code. We avoid stealing and murder, not because the written code tells us to avoid them, but because the Spirit tells us to avoid them. If there are things in the written code which the Spirit does not tell us to do (e.g. the stoning of adulterers), then we don't do them.

That is why it is an essential part of Paul's teaching that every Christian, by definition, has received the Spirit. It is all part of having faith. Scouring through the Old Testament texts looking for written laws to be obeyed is not having faith. As long as you do that, you are living the old life, not the "new life" specified by Paul. Esseentially, legalism is one of the forms of idolatry. They are both about clinging desperately to what is concrete and visible, instead of resting in faith upon what can be known by faith.

The law is not of the works of men... But by God who cherished us all enough to put it before us. We can not escape it. It is not written, but instead within the covenant of god with his creation. To transgress will only make of us a defiled calamity. Do not read the law. Live It!
It is all around us. Next time... You feel preachy... Learn first that they (TPTB) have made known to us the will of God.

I shall indeed tell thee a lie...
~ Pinocchio of the Hanging Tree...

originally posted by: ScatteredThirdAngel

originally posted by: bally001
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

I have always had trouble rendering the scriptures with regards the sexes. An example is what was contained in the video. Have a slow look at the video again. The laws are aimed at men. They make women look like the temptresses batting their eyelids. Do not covert them.

Men, "Don't behave badly." Thou shalt not covert thy neighbors wife. How about, in the interests of today's sexuality there is, "Thou shalt not covert thy neighbors partner."

The scriptures were written in the days of men, sure. Time to adjust. Either rewrite the commandments to include women or then Christianity is lost. Makes out that men are the evil doers and women are their temptation. That's my thoughts.

Kind regards,

bally

This kind of talk has no place on this thread. Topic, please.

Crikey! Sorry mate. If I've gone off topic perhaps a mod will delete my comments to prevent 'thread drift'.

Kind regards,

bally

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
You are using the phrase "in spirit" metaphorically, which is the modern (slightly debased) way. What Paul means is something much more literal, that we should be guided by the Spirit of God, the same Spirit which inspired the prophets and which was given to Jesus at his baptism.

Then we are to be guided by the Spirit instead of by the written code. We avoid stealing and murder, not because the written code tells us to avoid them, but because the Spirit tells us to avoid them. If there are things in the written code which the Spirit does not tell us to do (e.g. the stoning of adulterers), then we don't do them.

That is why it is an essential part of Paul's teaching that every Christian, by definition, has received the Spirit. It is all part of having faith. Scouring through the Old Testament texts looking for written laws to be obeyed is not having faith. As long as you do that, you are living the old life, not the "new life" specified by Paul. Esseentially, legalism is one of the forms of idolatry. They are both about clinging desperately to what is concrete and visible, instead of resting in faith upon what can be known by faith.

The Holy Spirit is never given to supersede the Word of God. This is an error. The Holy Spirit lines up with the Word of God. The only way to test the Spirit that is guiding you, is if it lines up with the Word of God. And according to the Word of God, written by the Holy Spirit:

Romans 8:7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal mind is at enmity with the law of God, those 10 Holy Commandments. It is not so, with those who are Spiritually minded. It is not the Holy Spirit that leads anyone to disregard the 7th Day Sabbath. For many it is ignorance, of which God winks at, but now what?

Acts 17:30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel

Colossians 2:16-17

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

You might want to stop and think about how pushing the Saturday Sabbath is a fleshly and worldly thought instead of a spiritual one. Seek God and his Holy Spirit and these worldly and fleshly practices won't consume your earthly mind so much. God is not bound by time and He could not care less which day of the week you rest or worship Him on.

You might want to do some research on the verses above.

I would encourage you to do exactly that. Specifically Leviticus 23. Watch, how the Lord separates the ceremonial sabbaths from the weekly Sabbath Himself.

a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
The Holy Spirit did not, even the very earliest days of the faith, tell the Gentile church to follow the Sabbath. We know that, because early apologists have to defend the church against Jewish criticism on the point. Nobody in the church had to make any decision to abandon the Sabbath, because the Sabbath had not been taken up in the first place.

Therefore those who don't follow the seventh-day Sabbath are not living in disobedience to the Spirit (and those who do are not "special" in the eyes of God and will receive no additional privileges).


P.S. And if you refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to supersede the literal reading of the Word, on what grounds do you justify our failure to stone adulterers?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ScatteredThirdAngel
The Holy Spirit did not, even the very earliest days of the faith, tell the Gentile church to follow the Sabbath. We know that, because early apologists have to defend the church against Jewish criticism on the point. Nobody in the church had to make any decision to abandon the Sabbath, because the Sabbath had not been taken up in the first place.

Therefore those who don't follow the seventh-day Sabbath are not living in disobedience to the Spirit (and those who do are not "special" in the eyes of God and will receive no additional privileges).


P.S. And if you refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to supersede the literal reading of the Word, on what grounds do you justify our failure to stone adulterers?

Hebrews 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

2 Corinthians 3:3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Hebrews 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Acts 13:42  And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

I think the Holy Spirit made it quite clear that the Gentiles should keep the 7th Day Sabbath. History records the same:

remnantofgod.org...

As for your grounds, Jesus is God. Those hypocrites were trying to bring a woman before God to be killed for her wicked actions. But if David can be let go for his adultery, and he held a much more responsible position, then so can this woman. And notice, they brought her to Jesus so that they might have something to accuse Him of. There was nothing or honest and sincere in their intents and Jesus saw right through the charade. The Holy Spirit is not given to supersede the Word of God, else you can easily be led astray by another spirit, who is unholy.

Isaiah 8:20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.