Everyone Needs to Condemn China over Hong Kong Right Now!!

a reply to: muzzleflash

Nearly every single person on this website is smart enough to know HK would prefer to be Free rather than enslaved by China.

Of course because you believe that somehow its only China pushing the NWO right? but never the sweet and gentle America right?

a reply to: ChefFox

I don't think that the Russians will revolt against Putin. I'm not sure where you got that. Maybe other people think that but I don't really think Russia is going to have revolts any time soon. People have a lot of freedom in Russia currently and things are improving there. They might revolt in the distant future though if the conditions are ripe.

I guarantee you I know more about Chinese history than you do. I've studied it for years in depth, it's one of my favorite topics. I study everything Chinese from languages, philosophy, religions, literature, military, law, etc. I have a great respect and appreciation for China's history and culture - that's why I despise the current Communist govt there because it hides history and destroys artifacts and documents in order to keep China's history a secret from it's own people.

Communist govts have to censor and hide history in order to keep the people under control. If they found out the truth about their history they would revolt against the corrupt oppressive leadership.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't think that the Russians will revolt against Putin. I'm not sure where you got that. Maybe other people think that but I don't really think Russia is going to have revolts any time soon. People have a lot of freedom in Russia currently and things are improving there. They might revolt in the distant future though if the conditions are ripe.

Same thing in China. don't expect the Chinese people to bend over and for you to suggest the Cheinse people would revolt against their gov? and start waving American and British flags?

Maybe the Trump admin should stop pulling all these distractions and actually starting working those walls? unless of course Trump is a clown that lies all the time with his promises of walls.


I think it has being a month or so since that last few inches of a wall has being built? I think the Trump admin should be fouscing more on that then worrying about over China.

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: muzzleflash

Nearly every single person on this website is smart enough to know HK would prefer to be Free rather than enslaved by China.

Of course because you believe that somehow its only China pushing the NWO right? but never the sweet and gentle America right?

I never said that. And I definitely don't believe it.

But here in America we the people are partially free still and are speaking out against totalitarianism. Some Americans are dumb and support tyranny but most of us are smart and know it's wrong and bad to enslave others.

I have spoken out against the tyrants in the US govt every day for my whole adult life.

People in China would never survive speaking out against their govt the way I speak out against my govt. They would get arrested and probably executed for being a rebel.

I am thankful that America is still somewhat free so that I can say what I choose to say. I can speak the truth without being afraid anyone will stop me.

So therefore China is worse off than America in this regard.

Double post.

a reply to: muzzleflash

When I see actually protests happening in Saudi Arabia whose people are being oppressed maybe then I would actually believe these so called protests but right now no.

a reply to: muzzleflash

doesn't china own hong kong anyway?
aren't they (china) taking back what is rightfully theirs?

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: muzzleflash

I don't think that the Russians will revolt against Putin. I'm not sure where you got that. Maybe other people think that but I don't really think Russia is going to have revolts any time soon. People have a lot of freedom in Russia currently and things are improving there. They might revolt in the distant future though if the conditions are ripe.

Same thing in China. don't expect the Chinese people to bend over and for you to suggest the Cheinse people would revolt against their gov? and start waving American and British flags?

Maybe the Trump admin should stop pulling all these distractions and actually starting working those walls? unless of course Trump is a clown that lies all the time with his promises of walls.


I think it has being a month or so since that last few inches of a wall has being built? I think the Trump admin should be fouscing more on that then worrying about over China.

I don't care about Trumps walls, it's a dumb idea and won't stop illegal immigration. Like I said the immigration is the result of the Drug War causing chaos and destroying the nations in Central America and those people are refugees fleeing those war-torn countries. The only way to stop the immigration is to end the Drug War.

I don't expect or need Chinese people to bend over for me, they are living in fear from their own govt. I don't need to force anyone to do anything because I understand human nature.

All I have to do is speak the truth and be patient.

China's people are wanting freedom so they can look at all the websites, play all the video games, and say what they think out loud without fear of being killed. It's just a matter of time before they build up the courage to stand up against the govt again.

Remember Tibet and how China had to go arrest, shoot, and beat down those Chinese citizens for speaking their mind against the govt?

Remember how Taiwan refuses to listen to China because they are threatening to hurt them for disagreeing?

Remember how the Uyghurs and Islamic people revolt and disagree? And how China's military comes to shoot them for saying "you're wrong" ?

Remember how Hong Kong is protesting in hundreds of thousands for months because they say "China is wrong" ?


You will never convince anyone that all Chinese love China. It's a dumb propaganda claim and it's unrealistic. No nation on Earth has 100% favor ratings of their govt. Everyone knows that China forces people to agree or die.

The situation in Hong Kong is a BFD.

Why don’t we intervene?

Turn the free(ish/relatively) nations of the world against China.

Play it like this:

- Hong Kong loudly cries that it wants its freedom and independence from Beijing.
- Beijing takes issue with this and sends in the police/military
- Hostile takeover of Hong Kong begins which ends their freedom.
- democracies around the world decry the action as hostile/human rights violations/etc.
- U.N. takes issue and via the US levy economic sanctions on China and simultaneously prop up other SE Asian countries to pick up the manufacturing slack.
- China faces financial hardship and starts to lose control of its population
- Burn China from the inside out.

Oh, and you gain leverage as it pertains to trade deals - they can’t play economic chicken any longer.

See how it plays out...

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: muzzleflash

doesn't china own hong kong anyway?
aren't they (china) taking back what is rightfully theirs?

No.
The people in Hong Kong appear to want to remain autonomous.
Hundreds of thousands of them have been protesting. That's significant.

How could anyone support a Chinese military crackdown and sacking the city rounding up all these people to put them in prisons or killing them simply to exert Chinese power claims? It's illegal by all legal standards.

Supposedly China agreed to allow HK to be autonomous until 2047 by treaty.

If HK wants to govern itself than I don't see China having any legitimate authority to stop them. All people have a right to self-determination and China signed a treaty agreeing to this.

China is in violation of international law, for example articles 19 and 20 of the UDHR which declare the right to freedom of expression and of assembly and that they cannot be forced to belong to an association - all of which China violates regularly and openly. Although the UDHR isn't binding on it's own accord, it is a declaration of intent and recognizance and because the UN Charter is a binding document than the UN's declarations are by default binding as well, and in fact the ICJ has supported this interpretation on multiple occasions. They violate article 21 by refusing to have free genuine elections, articles 28, 29 etc.

The ICCPR also gives legal force to the UDHR, even if a state didn't sign or even ratify the ICCPR or UDHR. Just like with our govt all it takes is a majority to sign and ratify it, and even just a signature makes a promise upon good faith so even without ratification it's still legally binding in the eyes of the ICJ and they will rule as if it is binding.

And Article 1 section 1 of the ICCPR states plainly : "All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development."

So if HK wants to remain autonomous than they, by international law, have that right and China cannot legally do anything to forcibly stop them with violence or criminal acts because they are a party to the UN charter and therefore a party to the UDHR and ICCPR and it doesn't even require their signature on either because it's a majority rules and the World Court reserves supreme jurisdiction over international treaties and disputes.

So China does not automatically own Hong Kong due to the fact this dispute is tied up in international treaties and law. Hong Kong reserves the right to declare independence even and can pursue that legally just as any group of people anywhere in the world technically can if they so choose.

originally posted by: subfab
a reply to: muzzleflash

doesn't china own hong kong anyway?
aren't they (china) taking back what is rightfully theirs?

To put it simply if my above post is tldr - by international law no one "rightfully" belongs to anyone else. Everyone has a right to self-determination. International laws govern HK vs China disputes and so therefore it's a World Court jurisdictional issue.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Heck, I have written several threats condemning China for it's various human right violations. That is a country that truly has been committing human right violations for a very long time, but the left around the world is mum when it comes to China. They prefer to make up claim about the U.S. committing human right's violations. Even the majority of countries in the UN are complicit with China.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: muzzleflash

Heck, I have written several threats condemning China for it's various human right violations. That is a country that truly has been committing human right violations for a very long time, but the left around the world is mum when it comes to China. They prefer to make up claim about the U.S. committing human right's violations. Even the majority of countries in the UN are complicit with China.

Because govt by it's very nature is a complete mess and people are negligent or malicious pretty often, it's by default that every govt historically commits human rights violations. Just some govts are more prone than others. And some, like China, make violations systematic and par for the course.

I agree with you about the left and it's tendency to ignore China's violations.

Also I thank you for speaking out against this regime and it's penchant for totalitarianism.

a reply to: ChefFox

I've had a ton of fun arguing with you so far today, so thanks for the good times.

You can still buy my silence by the way. My offer stands.
hehehehe

Yes I know I know... those Americans!

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: muzzleflash

When I see actually protests happening in Saudi Arabia whose people are being oppressed maybe then I would actually believe these so called protests but right now no.

Sure.
Saudi Arabian protests

The protests in Saudi Arabia were part of the Arab Spring that started with the 2011 Tunisian revolution. Protests started with a self-immolation in Samtah[35] and Jeddah street protests in late January 2011.[36][37] Protests against anti-Shia discrimination followed in February and early March in Qatif, Hofuf, al-Awamiyah, and Riyadh.[38][39] A Facebook organiser of a planned 11 March "Day of Rage",[40][41] Faisal Ahmed Abdul-Ahad,[24] was allegedly killed by Saudi security forces on 2 March,[24][25][26] with several hundred people protesting in Qatif, Hofuf and al-Amawiyah on the day itself.[42] Khaled al-Johani demonstrated alone in Riyadh,[42] was interviewed by BBC Arabic Television, was detained in `Ulaysha Prison,[43][44] and became known online as "the only brave man in Saudi Arabia".[43] Many protests over human rights took place in April 2011 in front of government ministry buildings in Riyadh, Ta'if and Tabuk[45][46][47] and in January 2012 in Riyadh.[48] In 2011, Nimr al-Nimr encouraged his supporters in nonviolent resistance.[49]

If you read the wiki page it lists plenty more after the quote above. It's just too big to quote all of it here.

I guess you believe in the natural manifestation of the HK protests now?

a reply to: ChefFox

The protestors in Saudi Arabia were beaten, some killed, and the women who protested for the Right to Drive movement were beaten and raped repeatedly in jail, even tortured by hanging and electric shocks, etc.

But their suffrage ended up getting them the ability to vote in minor elections and some of them got drivers licenses. So they actually gained ground by speaking their voices despite the extremely repressive regime that kills and tortures anyone that speaks out and disagrees with the govt there.

Can you see why people are afraid to protest in places like Saudi or in China? It is because they will be arrested and imprisoned for decades, beaten, tortured, raped, and killed.

And then the propaganda disinfo agents come out of the woodwork and start spreading lies and complete illogical gibberish claiming that no one protests, only terrorists protest, that protesting is evil/violent/bad, it's funded and started by enemy nations, etc etc.

a reply to: muzzleflash

Muzzle flash, I appreciate your sincere desire for political justice and empathize with the people in those countries who are under the realm of these ruthless tyrants and killers.

In SA and China, you will be hurt badly if you get out of line, believe me.

Unfortunately, there’s not much we can do but at least this president ought to condemn them for their foul deeds but he doesn’t and seems to have a liking for tyrants.

Uhhh This most surely will lead to WW3 if you tried to get as many nations as you could to attack China......good greif..China will be there at the battle of Armageddon....Whenever that happens.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: muzzleflash

Unfortunately, there’s not much we can do but at least this president ought to condemn them for their foul deeds but he doesn’t and seems to have a liking for tyrants.

Sure there's stuff we can do.
Like me, I am doing my part.
I spoke up and fought it out for them.

I'm happy with my work and efforts.
I couldn't really do much better, I did my best with what I have available.

All you have to do is your best.
That's plenty I believe, God will handle the rest.

No war will start over this. It’s no economic or strategic issues involved

America should stay out of it and only just like they always do, impose sanctions on China but they in a sense already have in the trade war. Trump is not interested in the freedom and rights issue