What Do You Think The Causes Of Mass Illegal Immigration Into USA Are?

originally posted by: Anathros

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
The promise of free shyte is a big draw card.
Tell people they won’t get a thing if they don’t work for it and that the money they make will be taxed twice if they send it overseas, that will drop it to a trickle plus with the added benefit of those coming wanting to contribute to society instead of leech off it.

The welfare state is what people are coming for, not for freedom or to flee war like most would have us think

So you get free healthcare in the USA?

No I didn't think so.

And I didn't think illegal/undocumented immigrants get *any* free stuff in the USA - they are after all ILLEGAL. Surely, revealing themselves would get them deported? Correct me if I'm wrong...
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually you're incorrect. If their child is born in the USA, the household in which the child resides receives benefits like free healthcare, food benefits, and sometimes subsidized housing. The benefits are calculated by the number of those in the household and not simply on the number of children. Also, illegal immigrants receive free healthcare because they flood our emergency rooms. By law, most require the hospitals to treat anyone and everyone despite their citizenship. Do you believe illegals are paying those bills? Maybe that's why many hard working Americans with insurance see increasing premiums..hmm?

But hey..I only worked at Medicaid for Arkansas for several years so what do I know about how the system is used?

I see. And I guess an administration would fail in trying to stop this through Federal-level legislation? Too much resistance - even from actual US citizens themselves?

a reply to: Anathros

"Judge not that ye be not judged." I can play the Bible really well but choose not to. Best wishes with all that hate.

When you have to fall back on religious scripture, you arn't thinking for yourself. Done.

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII

originally posted by: Anathros

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
The promise of free shyte is a big draw card.
Tell people they won’t get a thing if they don’t work for it and that the money they make will be taxed twice if they send it overseas, that will drop it to a trickle plus with the added benefit of those coming wanting to contribute to society instead of leech off it.

The welfare state is what people are coming for, not for freedom or to flee war like most would have us think

So you get free healthcare in the USA?

No I didn't think so.

And I didn't think illegal/undocumented immigrants get *any* free stuff in the USA - they are after all ILLEGAL. Surely, revealing themselves would get them deported? Correct me if I'm wrong...
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually you're incorrect. If their child is born in the USA, the household in which the child resides receives benefits like free healthcare, food benefits, and sometimes subsidized housing. The benefits are calculated by the number of those in the household and not simply on the number of children. Also, illegal immigrants receive free healthcare because they flood our emergency rooms. By law, most require the hospitals to treat anyone and everyone despite their citizenship. Do you believe illegals are paying those bills? Maybe that's why many hard working Americans with insurance see increasing premiums..hmm?

But hey..I only worked at Medicaid for Arkansas for several years so what do I know about how the system is used?

I see. And I guess an administration would fail in trying to stop this through Federal-level legislation? Too much resistance - even from actual US citizens themselves?

Yes. Apparently it's a non issue to those in Washington DC whether Republicans control both the house, Senate, and presidency or the democrats control all three. Both parties claim they want border security and better legislation when they're in power but nothing ever changes. If Trump can't fix it during his presidency, it's never going to get fixed imo. Left or right wing, they're attached to the same ole bird but people don't seem to understand that.

a reply to: Justso

I can't stop the suffering and I am not personally responsible for it either.
I said that these people are being used for an agenda that some see coming
true and others' don't. Nothing more to be said!

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: Anathros

"Judge not that ye be not judged." I can play the Bible really well but choose not to. Best wishes with all that hate.

When you have to fall back on religious scripture, you arn't thinking for yourself. Done.

You mentioned religion and I simply quoted a fitting scripture that related to the topic being discussed where as I don't remember being judgemental.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Justso

I can't stop the suffering and I am not personally responsible for it either.
I said that these people are being used for an agenda that some see coming
true and others' don't. Nothing more to be said!

Frankly I'm surprised the issue hasn't been addressed sooner. There were over 1.6 million illegal border crossing apprehensions at the turn of the millennium - suggesting that the ACTUAL number of illegal crossings would have been much, much, much higher...

originally posted by: Deetermined
No one can be turned away at an emergency room.

Private hospitals can certainly refuse care in non-emergency situations, meaning you can't just go the emergency room for basic care.

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Justso

I can't stop the suffering and I am not personally responsible for it either.
I said that these people are being used for an agenda that some see coming
true and others' don't. Nothing more to be said!

Frankly I'm surprised the issue hasn't been addressed sooner. There were over 1.6 million illegal border crossing apprehensions at the turn of the millennium - suggesting that the ACTUAL number of illegal crossings would have been much, much, much higher...

It's a political hot potato topic. Except Trump believes a wall will help. It a finger in the leaking dam while the root of the issue lies with the 14th amendment and legislation that actually rewards illegal immigrants with benefits. It will take a Congress that actually works for the American people to fix. Without term limits and laws against lobbyist bribery, no Congress will ever take action on the issue.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Wrong. Any federal hospital has to treat anyone that walks in. Know this as fact.

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Wrong. Any federal hospital has to treat anyone that walks in. Know this as fact.

I don't want to sound like I'm targeting you Justso but Augustus said "private" where you said "federal" and claimed he is wrong. You're both correct in your respective statements.

a reply to: Justso

We can take in immigrants, but they need to come in here legally, if we let them break the law to get here, they will start to think the laws do not apply to them.

On top of that, the border living centers for the people trying to get in have living conditions better than the majority of the immigrants in them had where they lived before, and are way better than the conditions they had coming to America across Mexico.

There are some people who are blasting the border patrol for illigitimate reasons, We are not going to put up refugees in the Hilton Hotel, for every one of these new people allowed to come in, which means many need assistance, there will be one homeless person in our country who will not get what they need to survive right. Take care of our own before taking care of people from other countries.

originally posted by: AnakinWayneII

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: AnakinWayneII

So you get free healthcare in the USA?

No I didn't think so.

Everyone who visits an emergency gets free health care even if they're illegal or can't pay. Who do you think you're kidding?

I was under the impression that folks still had to be covered, emergency or not?

Is that (still) not the case in the States?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Laws that force us (citizens) to be insured are enforced by the IRS which penalizes you at tax time for each month of the year that you were not insured, however since most illegals don't file income taxes with the IRS they get away without penalty.

originally posted by: Justso
Wrong. Any federal hospital has to treat anyone that walks in. Know this as fact.

Did you miss the word 'private' in my comment? That means it's not public in case you're confused.

a reply to: AnakinWayneII

It seems to me that people immigrate to the United States in search of work and a better life. The countries south of the border are getting dangerous, and have corrupt governments in some cases. They are also poor. People come here seeking asylum because they are in danger in their home countries.

a reply to: rickymouse

I've seen pictures of the border facilities, and the living conditions are far worse than even the home countries that these people came from. They are hoarded into large, fenced-in facilities with no beds or running water. Food is limited, and the lights are kept on 24-hours a day.

The living conditions look far worse than what I know about either Japanese internment camps or German concentration camps. For example, Auschwitz, a German concentration camp, had bunk beds - the border facilities have no beds. Both Auschwitz and the border facilities lack suitable running water and definitely lack suitable sanitary facilities. Prisoners in Auschwitz, meanwhile, received three meals a day - not so in the border camps.

However, in Auschwitz, there were forced labor and execution facilities.

There was a U.S. citizen who was detained for over 20 days at a border facility without due process recently. His mom and lawyer even brought his birth certificate and other papers to the facility, but it did not help. This man came out and is now talking about the conditions. He lost over 20 pounds while incarcerated.

For the moment, there are no executions or forced labor. But look at the streamlined way the U.S. government has set up camps compared to Auschwitz - no beds! Just put people in fenced-in areas and post guards. Don't worry about a cafeteria or showers! No need! Don't worry about running water or food too much.

The government, whether run by Democrats or Republicans, will learn from these border facilities how to run more streamlined concentration camps if the time ever comes. I imagine them just dumping people into a warehouse without food or water period, and then periodically leading them out front to be shot and thrown into a pile of bodies.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: rickymouse

I've seen pictures of the border facilities, and the living conditions are far worse than even the home countries that these people came from. They are hoarded into large, fenced-in facilities with no beds or running water. Food is limited, and the lights are kept on 24-hours a day.

The living conditions look far worse than what I know about either Japanese internment camps or German concentration camps. For example, Auschwitz, a German concentration camp, had bunk beds - the border facilities have no beds. Both Auschwitz and the border facilities lack suitable running water and definitely lack suitable sanitary facilities. Prisoners in Auschwitz, meanwhile, received three meals a day - not so in the border camps.

However, in Auschwitz, there were forced labor and execution facilities.

There was a U.S. citizen who was detained for over 20 days at a border facility without due process recently. His mom and lawyer even brought his birth certificate and other papers to the facility, but it did not help. This man came out and is now talking about the conditions. He lost over 20 pounds while incarcerated.

For the moment, there are no executions or forced labor. But look at the streamlined way the U.S. government has set up camps compared to Auschwitz - no beds! Just put people in fenced-in areas and post guards. Don't worry about a cafeteria or showers! No need! Don't worry about running water or food too much.

The government, whether run by Democrats or Republicans, will learn from these border facilities how to run more streamlined concentration camps if the time ever comes. I imagine them just dumping people into a warehouse without food or water period, and then periodically leading them out front to be shot and thrown into a pile of bodies.

If true, this sounds terrible. Sounds almost as bad as life in SSA.

Crazy...

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: rickymouse

I've seen pictures of the border facilities, and the living conditions are far worse than even the home countries that these people came from. They are hoarded into large, fenced-in facilities with no beds or running water. Food is limited, and the lights are kept on 24-hours a day.

The living conditions look far worse than what I know about either Japanese internment camps or German concentration camps. For example, Auschwitz, a German concentration camp, had bunk beds - the border facilities have no beds. Both Auschwitz and the border facilities lack suitable running water and definitely lack suitable sanitary facilities. Prisoners in Auschwitz, meanwhile, received three meals a day - not so in the border camps.

However, in Auschwitz, there were forced labor and execution facilities.

There was a U.S. citizen who was detained for over 20 days at a border facility without due process recently. His mom and lawyer even brought his birth certificate and other papers to the facility, but it did not help. This man came out and is now talking about the conditions. He lost over 20 pounds while incarcerated.

For the moment, there are no executions or forced labor. But look at the streamlined way the U.S. government has set up camps compared to Auschwitz - no beds! Just put people in fenced-in areas and post guards. Don't worry about a cafeteria or showers! No need! Don't worry about running water or food too much.

The government, whether run by Democrats or Republicans, will learn from these border facilities how to run more streamlined concentration camps if the time ever comes. I imagine them just dumping people into a warehouse without food or water period, and then periodically leading them out front to be shot and thrown into a pile of bodies.

You have seen the pictures that someone deemed as correct to emphasize what they want you to believe. We need true pictures of the facilities, not pictures created to exploit an agenda.

Yes, the conditions are not very good, they have way more people hitting the border than ever before, the conditions are crowded more than ever before. Is this large increase of people trying to get here the fault of the Border patrol? No.

I have heard of the local jails loaded to the max during times when there are a lot of crimes being committed, double the amount of prisoners in a cell. They cannot build cells for twice as many prisoners as normally are in jail, our county cannot afford that. This tidal wave of refugees and immigrants hitting the border may be temporary.

So what do you suggest to do about it. The answer is not to just leave anyone pass into the USA without vetting them and doing things legally. Why can't they just camp on the other side of the border, why is it our responsibility to house these people and feed them at great expense of our citizens till they can be properly approved. These people do have the right to go back into mexico till they are approved, they just come into this country till properly admitted, they ARE NOT prisoners. These are not jails, they can go wait it out in Mexico. If they choose to stay in these centers, they can but they have the right to just go back into Mexico while they wait.

Nobody is forcing these people to wait in those detainment centers while they wait to get approved.

a reply to: rickymouse

Thanks for the civil conversation. I have looked at multiple sources for the pictures and listened to the accounts of multiple people. Some of the pictures were from Pence's visit. I feel they are accurate.

As for your point, yes, the facilities are overcrowded, and I think that people can volunteer to leave at any time, although I'm not sure. These are good points. It makes the situation more ethically tolerable.

If I were in charge, I would start by producing a bill that clearly stated we need money to fix the humanitarian crisis at the border and clearly stated where the money would go. I would suggest building facilities with showers and cots and a kitchen, probably using tents or something. It really doesn't need to be too spectacular, to be honest, it would be best to make it minimal in order to appease conservatives.

If this seemed like it was going to be an ongoing problem, I would look into the possibility of constructing more permanent facilities.

Next, I would look for a way to hasten the due process these migrants deserve. They need to be weeded out, background-checked, possibly tested for diseases and the like, claims for asylum need to be verified or not, and they also need to go to court. We might need to appoint more judges, for all I know. I would use technology to aid in the background check process.

Then, I would focus on creating some sort of guest-worker program to allow people to come here legally and get documented while filling the demand for illegal migrant work here in the U.S. The program would be liberal enough to actually account for a realistic amount of migrants, and would also be careful about not giving them too many free services, although I am sure the children would get free education and something would have to be done about medical care (not necessarily free). I would recommend that the government ensure that the migrants do not have a criminal history by doing a background check, and possibly check their health, as well.

At this point, since there would be a reasonable alternative to coming into the country illegally, it would be easier to send back undocumented immigrants - there would be less, and there would be less backlash from libs. In the meantime, I would recommend deporting criminals who are here illegally first.

After all of this is done, I would recommend interfering in the policies of the nations south of the border a bit. I would do this by having some sort of task force evaluate the situations in each nation, and then figure out solutions that could be suggested to the leaders, and I would work together with corporations and other businesses to help make this happen while creating opportunities for business owners in the U.S.

There would be no need to force policy on the nations, we could communicate with them, and work together with the allied businesses to find solutions where everyone is participating willingly.

Like I said, there is an opportunity here. If an American-made infrastructure owned by businesses ends up stabilizing countries south of the border, that would profit us A LOT - both as a source of revenue and as a source of soft political power.

Look, China is doing this sort of thing to nations all around it right now. It is basically a way to expand your empire without going to war. I would highly recommend it as a way to build a nation that expands its infrastructure throughout the entirety of Central America and parts of South America in order to be able to withstand Chinese-Russian aggression in the coming decades.

a reply to: darkbake

To a point, immigration should be allowed, but we cannot leave every person who wants to come in come in. We need to do what you were saying and make it affordable. Another thing would be to try to make agreements with Mexico and Guatamala to help out and make some little towns there where people can transition. They would need to work in those towns to keep self sufficient. It is a lot cheaper for us to care for these people in Guatamala then bus the ones who qualify up than to pay high costs here under a much more expensive economy.

We do not have to take all the people who want to come to this country into our country. I do not know where that crazy idea came from. We do not have to allow anyone from any country to move here, they all need to be checked out. I am Finn, yet I do not believe we should be taking in crazy Finns from Finland who are a menace to their society. We have to watch who we leave in so it does not cause civil unrest. I will not classify all the people trying to come in legally from the southern border as criminals, but I will consider all those who sneak over the border as criminals....because they snuck in here illegally.

We do need to reduce legal fees for those who want to become citizens here, but that does not mean we have to take in just anyone. Why would we take in people who want to be a drain on our society, why do we need to allow very sick people in who will cause our healthcare insurance costs to skyrocket, when they got that way by abusing their bodies and doing drugs. I would rather set up cheap hospitals in the respective countries and pay their own people to handle their care, a dollar can buy a lot more in Guatamala than here in America. Drug costs alone in Mexico and Guatamala are much cheaper.

We cannot help everyone, we need to get our economy going and create more manufacturing jobs for our people so we have more workers making a decent living to pay taxes for those kinds of programs. A consumer based society is never strong. We need to create the things our citizens need, right now it seems we cherish jobs that are not really necessary. Soon all stores in towns will be closed, Amazon will be mailing everything to people and nobody will be working. We are on our way to becoming a third world country where everyone will think a good phone and package is better than eating healthy foods and where every household except five percent will be buried in personal debt.

Television.
Shows a life of ease and wealth. People abroad assume all Americans live like that.