Iran Versus the United States

originally posted by: CharlesT

originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: CharlesT

Yea old school like the older folks in my country still hating Germany, being stubborn and stuck in their thinking.

You are stupid. Just plain stupid.

I take it you have never read the book "how to win friends and influence people"?

I'm surprised the mods haven't shut you down yet "illd school".

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: CharlesT

originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: CharlesT

Yea old school like the older folks in my country still hating Germany, being stubborn and stuck in their thinking.

You are stupid. Just plain stupid.

I take it you have never read the book "how to win friends and influence people"?

a reply to: CharlesT

FU You don't know me. I am a proud American and am not ashamed to admit it. I am old school, dude. Does that mean anything to you?

Wow, internet tough guy. You have no idea!

Anyway big shot, these Chinese eat dogs for dinner, they'd eat human for breakfast.#

Aaand, lets be frank.

America couldn't win against Vietnam, they have been in Afghanistan forever, and they had to drop atom bombs to end the last world war.

What makes you little tough guy think you'll win war with China? Go back to sleep!

a reply to: mekhanics

oh no,, the big bad wolf is threatening me.
Help, help!

a reply to: CharlesT

Try to fix that link in your OP first:

www.thesun.co.uk...

originally posted by: mekhanics

You bunch of Americans are very tough picking weak countries.

**ssies.

You should know..you guys tried twice...

a reply to: mekhanics

No force projection ability to date, many years away to compete with US militarily overall.

That said, China has a myriad of issues and layers of turmoil inside their own interior, no one mentions whatsoever...

mg

I worked this out a year or so ago, going from my knowledge of what equipment is available to the US and what production capabilities are. If it was strictly war between the two countries, all out total war, I would have to give a huge edge to the US for so many reasons and if civilian casualties were not an issue (not meaning targeting civilian populations, but collateral damage from strikes on military installations w/ civilian staff or closely surrounded by civilians - or if they are being used as shields).

I think if the US were so inclined they could wage a war with very little loss of US military lives.

Now all this is if both countries follow geneva convention which IIRC means you can't use maritime vessels flagged to a different country with a military intent - like a cargo ship flagged to Mozambique, carrying cruise missles for Iran rolling up into a US port. With the size of modern ships (cargo/freight vessels) and missile technology, it is actually a very scary possibility that one could be modified or even just carry top loaded containers with active systems - as they could overwhelm a defense system I would imagine.

Here is where something similar happened in the past.
There were cases during WWII of frigate's and merchant ships being "drafted" into the navy and armed and there is a fairly notable case of this by a converted German frigate attacking and sinking one of Australia's pride's the HMAS Sydney (which also got it's revenge on the Kormoran)

Battle between the two"

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...(D48)

I'm not sure what missile defense Iran has, the S300 IIRC or if maybe they've gotten delivery of any S400/500's since tensions have started to rise. There is always the possibility that they may be able to clone these systems in some way, possibly with designs/help from the OEM (Russia) - so if they then have their own version, that would give Russia plausible deniability for selling arms to Iran, while still supporting them. Don't forget who supported Iran for decades while the US supported Israel.

The thing about these missile defense/SAM's is they take time to fuel and setup and there are limited number of missiles per installation. I would think throwing a large number of cruise missles along with guided bombs at them at the same time would allow for the destruction of these sites, especially if a strike/launch can be initiated before they even begin to fuel/react.

I'm wondering at what altitude the UAV was flying when it was shot down or more importantly when it was detected. I think these fly pretty high, often out of range of many radars, but maybe newer radar systems have had to correct for this. I think this is why the SR71 was able to fly over the USSR because it was above radar and even if it was picked up it was faster than missiles.

Tehran is ~550miles from Afghan border and about 450 from international waters in the Persian Gulf. It's also 450 miles from Baghdad and ~300 miles from north east regions of Iraq, a Kurdish area I believe - who we supported for the last 27+ years, though we have dropped the ball at times & maybe a little more in last 1-2 years...

a reply to: mekhanics

Vietnam was not a war, it was run by politicians and the media. A true war would be led by the military, like WWII was. China has zero ability to attack the US other than nukes, which would see them nuked in return so it's a pointless weapon for discussion. Unfortunately US politicians sold out the US, and corporate greed has led China to becoming a true enemy. The current situation may not last forever.

a reply to: gortex

Maybe, to a degree, but it wont last long enough to generate any serious pofits. Everyone seems to think this will spiral into something huge, but it wont. The US would just sanitize the missile batteries that can attack aircraft and shipping. If the US REALLY wants to make a point, we will sink their navy, again, like we did in the 80's

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: mekhanics

Vietnam was not a war, it was run by politicians and the media. A true war would be led by the military, like WWII was. China has zero ability to attack the US other than nukes, which would see them nuked in return so it's a pointless weapon for discussion. Unfortunately US politicians sold out the US, and corporate greed has led China to becoming a true enemy. The current situation may not last forever.

True enemy is your government, my government. All These sociopaths that crave power and control.

originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: CharlesT

Try to fix that link in your OP first:

www.thesun.co.uk...

They pulled it.

a reply to: CharlesT

I think you've hit on the warhawk's conundrum.

On the one hand, they have to convince people that Iran is an immediate threat that has to be dealt with now, like North Korea was last year.

On the other hand, they want to assure the people that any conflict would be over quickly and be as bloodless as possible because they are no match for us.

Both statements can't be true, but they can both be false.

a reply to: mekhanics
England taught us very well how to do so. In the nineteenth century, that was your people's mastery. Thanks for the lessons, at least our last secretary of defense had the cojones to eliminate Russian PMC'S in a siege battle when they dared cross the river to attack our guys. Man I wish our goverments would release those videos.

When's the last time the British military took out Russian goons??

I want general Mattis back, he would have launched an immediate reprisal. I know Dave Friedman has Trump's back, why the hell did he just not strike back?? Hopefully Israel will at least demolish some more stuff in Damascus then.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: mekhanics
England taught us very well how to do so. In the nineteenth century, that was your people's mastery. Thanks for the lessons, at least our last secretary of defense had the cojones to eliminate Russian PMC'S in a siege battle when they dared cross the river to attack our guys. Man I wish our goverments would release those videos.


When's the last time the British military took out Russian goons??

I want general Mattis back, he would have launched an immediate reprisal. I know Dave Friedman has Trump's back, why the hell did he just not strike back?? Hopefully Israel will at least demolish some more stuff in Damascus then.

Wow! Conditioned much?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
A true war would be led by the military, like WWII was.

Actually, from the allies side, WW2 was run by politicians - even when the US joined. The difference was that it was all-out war, with the military given lee-way and the means to do the job.

To topic. In a war between Iran and the US it would be no contest. However, war will not happen.

Iran seem bent on provocation - sabotaging tankers and shooting down US drones. Trying to provoke a response plays into the domestic narrative and distracts from the root problem here, which is Iran's apparent desire to develop nukes. The prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran is not a happy one. The US could fire off a brace of cruise missiles to flatten some military installations, but why bother?

In the Arab world Iran is intensively disliked, and not just on sectarian grounds. Their only ally appears to be Russia and the same small and marginal crowd of dysfunctional counties like Venezuela and Syria.

China don't care, so long as they get their petrochemicals and are able to persecute Chinese Muslims without restraint, as they are doing to millions of them now. It's an upside down world where a Muslim theocracy (Iran) tries to get an Islam-hating China on their side.

a reply to: CharlesT

Two words "Suicide Bomber".

Probably in Iraq Israel.

On the other hand, Iraq's anti-aircraft and ground based anti-tank capabilities are on par with any western nation. They have S4 and S5 batteries, and can use ultra low frequency radar to target stealth aircraft.

They likely also got hold of some of the stealth helicopter from the raid on Bin Laden's compound. So they many know how to get round stealth in other ways.

originally posted by: GD
a reply to: gortex

Maybe, to a degree, but it wont last long enough to generate any serious pofits. Everyone seems to think this will spiral into something huge, but it wont. The US would just sanitize the missile batteries that can attack aircraft and shipping. If the US REALLY wants to make a point, we will sink their navy, again, like we did in the 80's

Iran has been preparing for this for twenty years. It's a standard tactic for Iran to leave it's radar site and missile batteries cold, and to have mobile batteries. These are essentially immune to radar guided weapons which is what you would normally use. You need to know where they are in advance and to strike them using GPS or laser guided munition. GPS munition are extremely expensive, and laser guided munitions are risky unless you use drones (and Iran has already shown that it knows how to jam drones).

Iran could well have who knows how many suicide bombers already in Iraq and Israel, ready to cause maximum casualties if war is declared. All that it would take would be for a couple to get through and to blow a queue at a bus depot or two and we could be seeing mass casualties.

Iran also has chemical weapons. If the thought that they we going to be destroyed as Trump is threatening to do they could poison half of Israel's water overnight. Or use chemical mortars that don't fly high enough for Iron Dome to intercept, into an area with a civilian population. They could kill thousands in minutes.

Trump needs to stop thinking of America as an island thousands of miles away from trouble, and to understand that America has allies right in the target area who could die in the thousands if he moves against Iran.

Israel's civilian population is tightly packed and vulnerable to an attack from Iran, even if American cities aren't.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Iran would poison the water supply of civilians and murder them with suicide bombers as retaliation for military offensive after it has already declared war on the US?? That is the behavior of terrorists, and should be countered with the elimination of their entire leadership if they truly believe that doing these things will somehow help them in war.