Vermont opens door for gender-affirming surgery for transgender youth

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: Phage

"Documentation of medical necessity."

What sex change operation is medically necessary?

Exactly. None. Increasingly, even genuine intersex babies are being left to develop as they will if there is no risk of danger to the baby, i.e., "medical necessity."

Any doctor who says such should have zes license(s) revoked and brought up on charges for mutilating clients.

Children, even.

Even the doctor quoted in the OP said that it should be an option if they "want" it. This isn't about need. And the numbers show that post-op transsexuals have an astronomically high suicide rate as well as pre-op patients.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
luv how the entire point of this thread was disproved immediately but the OP pivots to "well trans people are just BAD" and the thread rolls on.

Reading comprehension problems? Yes, I was incorrect about the self-ID and elimination of psychiatric diagnosis/treatment. But that doesn't change the age requirement being eliminated. The title and subject matter are still relevant: "Vermont opens door for gender-affirming surgery for transgender youth."

only question left is why the OP has such an axe to grind about trans people. She's admitted previously she doesn't know anyone trans or have anything to do with trans people but here we are, thread after thread of the same exhausted nonsense.

Oh dear. I've said many things, including that I don't have anything against trans people. And yes, my experience with trans people is limited, but not non-existent.I am friendly and respectful to everyone until they give me a reason not to be. A few weeks ago I complimented a gender-nonconforming cashier who did an awesome job of handling a problem AND keeping the line moving.

I have huge problems with policies and laws that harm people -- including trans people, and in this case trans CHILDREN. I have huge problems with violent and abusive people -- including trans people. I have huge problems with laws and regs that violate women's rights to protected spaces by men -- including trans people.

And I have HUGE problems with narcissistic people who do not respect or consider the rights and needs of others and bully and harass and violate others-- including trans people.

Like damn i know we're fabulous and i'm sorry if your life is boring but god, it's like you're obsessed with us.

Interesting choice of words you're projecting there... But here's the thing: It's the Trans Activists who are obsessed with violating the rights and well-being of others. I am only concerned with the harm Trans Activists are imposing on the rest of us. As soon as Trans Activists back off trampling our rights and our safety and our well-being, I will have nothing to worry about.

a reply to: gort51

Very interesting -- thank you!!!

I was aware that in some royal households, and maybe just some wealthy households, that boys/men were castrated before being allowed to serve the queen/empress/mistress or be part of her household.

Roman law once recognized both "born" eunuchs and "made" eunuchs in the empire. Presumably, "born" eunuchs were homosexual/transgender men.

a reply to: Boadicea

Then there shouldn’t be an age limit to smoking, drinking, driving.

With parental consent of course.

a reply to: Boadicea

I agree with that too, there are parents who are told by the state, what to do. And there are parents who want to let their kids do whatever they want at such an early age that should not be making these kinds of decisions.
This is just getting way out of control on so many fronts.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Boadicea

Then there shouldn’t be an age limit to smoking, drinking, driving.

With parental consent of course.

Well... of course!

Let's just add firearms to the list.... and sending them off to war...

a reply to: Boadicea

But with puberty blockers, the kids seem to be locked into their dysphoria and do not grow out of it.

Also, if a male child takes puberty blockers, the subsequent surgery to create a faux vagina is much more invasive and complicated because there is not enough penile tissue due to the stunted growth of the penis. Part of the colon must be used. This adds another layer of risks during the surgery, and a possibility of lifelong issues with foul discharge due to the flora that is native to that tissue.

a reply to: new_here

Also, if a male child takes puberty blockers, the subsequent surgery to create a faux vagina is much more invasive and complicated because there is not enough penile tissue due to the stunted growth of the penis. Part of the colon must be used. This adds another layer of risks during the surgery, and a possibility of lifelong issues with foul discharge due to the flora that is native to that tissue.

Yes -- thank you for adding this.

Jazz Jennings had this problem, having been given puberty blockers so young that there was not adequate tissue for the simpler procedure. Jazz had to go back for complications at least a couple of times.

And, yes, the very nature of the material then used has its own issues and complications -- as you noted.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: new_here

Also, if a male child takes puberty blockers, the subsequent surgery to create a faux vagina is much more invasive and complicated because there is not enough penile tissue due to the stunted growth of the penis. Part of the colon must be used. This adds another layer of risks during the surgery, and a possibility of lifelong issues with foul discharge due to the flora that is native to that tissue.

Yes -- thank you for adding this.

Jazz Jennings had this problem, having been given puberty blockers so young that there was not adequate tissue for the simpler procedure. Jazz had to go back for complications at least a couple of times.

And, yes, the very nature of the material then used has its own issues and complications -- as you noted.

Jazz went back once for a cosmetic issue as per Jazz. Bod, do you think she would do it all over again? Yes, she would. I would have to agree with you on keeping the age restriction at age of consent (18 years) just for the surgical part of it, but it's not my call.

Her parents also said that "They'd rather have a living daughter, than a dead son".

a reply to: InTheLight

Jazz went back once for a cosmetic issue as per Jazz.

No. Don't whitewash and minimize the hell Jazz has gone through:

‘I Am Jazz’ Spoilers: Surgery Complication ‘Wasn’t Very Pretty’ Says Jazz Jennings

Jazz Jennings Explains Post-Op Complications: My Vagina FELL APART!

I would have to agree with you on keeping the age restriction at age of consent (18 years) just for the surgical part of it, but it's not my call.

I appreciate that much -- thank you.

Her parents also said that "They'd rather have a living daughter, than a dead son".

All parents want their children to live and to live happy lives. We just have very different ideas about how to accomplish that.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

Jazz went back once for a cosmetic issue as per Jazz.

No. Don't whitewash and minimize the hell Jazz has gone through:

‘I Am Jazz’ Spoilers: Surgery Complication ‘Wasn’t Very Pretty’ Says Jazz Jennings

Jazz Jennings Explains Post-Op Complications: My Vagina FELL APART!

I would have to agree with you on keeping the age restriction at age of consent (18 years) just for the surgical part of it, but it's not my call.

I appreciate that much -- thank you.

Her parents also said that "They'd rather have a living daughter, than a dead son".

All parents want their children to live and to live happy lives. We just have very different ideas about how to accomplish that.

I am not whitewashing anything, watch the video, Jazz herself states that the only complication was a cosmetic external one and that it was not life threatening.

Well, Bod, I wonder how you would deal with one of your own children if they exhibited signs of gender dysphoria. You can't walk in their shoes, so in my opinion, you haven't a clue.

a reply to: InTheLight

You can't walk in their shoes, so in my opinion, you haven't a clue.

Finally! You get it!!!

Let's expand on this: Neither of us can walk in anyone else's shoes (or bodies), so in your and my opinion, no man has a clue what it "feels like" to be a woman, and no woman has a clue what it "feels like" to be a man. Which leaves us with basic biology and anatomy. Our sex. Male and female. Adult males are men and adult females are women.

However, like Jazz, I have had medical emergencies and surgeries and complications. I do know about that. All human bodies are subject to health and medical problems. Male and female.

So, please, take your own very good advice.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: InTheLight

You can't walk in their shoes, so in my opinion, you haven't a clue.

Finally! You get it!!!

Let's expand on this: Neither of us can walk in anyone else's shoes (or bodies), so in your and my opinion, no man has a clue what it "feels like" to be a woman, and no woman has a clue what it "feels like" to be a man. Which leaves us with basic biology and anatomy. Our sex. Male and female. Adult males are men and adult females are women.

However, like Jazz, I have had medical emergencies and surgeries and complications. I do know about that. All human bodies are subject to health and medical problems. Male and female.

So, please, take your own very good advice.

Problem is we are not just male and female, we are also spirit and intellect, which you nor I can feel what another is feeling or desires.

Stop twisting around my words, you know what I meant about not being able to understand being a parent of a child with gender dysphoria. Your surgery complications point is proven moot.

One question: Why do you care?

a reply to: MisterSpock

I think the cases of infections has to do with the total number of operations needed to complete the process and not because of activity levels.

It should be noted too that SRS is usually dont on people in their thirties not to kids.

I doubt any parent is going to consent to surgery on a child who may be going through a phase. And I doubt that any surgeon is going to do SRS on a child.

a reply to: Boadicea

I cannot find statistics right now,

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


This may help. It covers what you said.

originally posted by: schuyler
Informed parental consent? No, it's child abuse. In a recent case in our area a couple of lesbians stated that their child, a boy, really preferred to be a girl, so they started him on the hormonal therapy before he was even a teenager. But they insisted it wasn't from any pressure from them! Oh, no! He came to this conclusion on his own accord. They were simply facilitating what he wanted to do.

Riiiiight!

Do you have back up for that?
Just how did you find out about a "recent case in our area"? Medical records are private.

a reply to: Phage

Cool. I often wondered how they do that.
let me try it.

whoop whoop!

a reply to: Boadicea

Kudos to you that it was even obvious because I was totally clueless. Thought it was some special keyboard function not on my old keyboard.

a reply to: JHumm

You only have to be 16 to drive and 15 to get ajob.