Ukraine Charging officials for colluding to help Hillary - Why no investigation from FBI?

The laws of elections in the US, and many other things, are broken all of the time. For example, lying to congress, failing to register as a foreign lobbyist, or receiving a thing of value during an election from a foreign national are done all of the time. Despite this, charges are rarely brought.

Regardless of your feelings on these laws, the most important thing regarding them is that they need to be applied equally to all people, no matter what side of the political aisle they are on. Thus rarely enforcing these laws would be less of a problem than selectively enforcing them.

Unfortunately we see with all of the laws mentioned above that the US intel agencies are selectively enforcing them by charging only people connected to Trump with these laws. We know that is the case with lying to congress or the FBI (Hillary team members Mills and Abedin lied to the FBI without charges), we know that is the case with failing to register as a foreign lobbyist (Hillarys campaign manager Podesta's firm worked with Manafort in lobbying for Russian interests while Hillary was SOS, but was not charged unlike Manafort).

We now see it when it comes to contributions with Foreign nationals in an election, or "collusion" as it has been called when referring to Trump and Russia.

It has been long known that HIllary's team got dirt on Trump from Russians, the very thing that is said to be a crime worthy of the entire investigation into Trump's team, and yet no investivgation of her or her team has occurred for this.

But there i an even more stark example of this that has all but swept under the rug; Hillary's team "colluding" with Ukrainian officials to get dirt on Trump and help her win the election.

Ukraine's Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko has launched an investigation into the head of the Ukrainian National Anti-Corruption Bureau for allegedly attempting to help Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump during the 2016 US election by releasing damaging information about a "black ledger" of illegal business dealings by former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort.

...

"According to the member of parliament of Ukraine, he got the court decision that the NABU official conducted an illegal intrusion into the American election campaign," said Lutsenko, speaking with The Hill's John Solomon about the anti-corruption bureau chief, Artem Sytnyk.

"It means that we think Mr. Sytnyk, the NABU director, officially talked about criminal investigation with Mr. [Paul] Manafort, and at the same time, Mr. Sytnyk stressed that in such a way, he wanted to assist the campaign of Ms. Clinton," Lutsenko continued.

www.zerohedge.com...

So while the FBI (under Obama) started all of these investigations into Trump for trying to get dirt from a foreign power on Hillary, and wghile Mueller picked up that torch, raiding lawyers houses in the middle of the night, charging people with decades old crimes, and lasting the entirety of Trump's Presidency; they have done nothing with the fact Hillary's team was working with Ukrainian officials to help her get dirt on Trump to win the election.

Ukraine's government however is taking the matter more seriously. Its not just Mr. Sytnyk thats has been charged.

A Kyiv court said that a Ukrainian lawmaker and a top anticorruption official’s decision in 2016 to publish documents linked to President Donald Trump’s then-campaign chairman amounted to interference in the U.S. presidential election.

The December 11 finding came in response to a complaint filed by another Ukrainian lawmaker, who alleged that Serhiy Leshchenko and Artem Sytnyk illegally released the documents in August 2016, showing payments by a Ukrainian political party to Trump’s then-campaign chairman, Paul Manafort.

The documents, excerpts from a secret ledger of payments by the Party of Regions, led to Manafort being fired by Trump’s election campaign.

The Kyiv court said that the documents published by Leshchenko and Sytnyk were part of an ongoing pretrial investigation in Ukraine into the operations of the pro-Russian Party of Regions. The party’s head had been President Viktor Yanukovych until he fled the country amid mass protests two years earlier.

www.zerohedge.com...

Leshchenko also worked closely with Hillary PAC donors, Viktor Pinchuk and George Soros.

Reports of Ukrainian officials helping the Hillary team have been around for a while. Here we can see that at leats one DNC official was meeting with these officials to get diort on Trump, and the DNC knew about it.

Specifically, the complaint contends that, last year, Ukrainian-American operative and DNC consultant, Alexandra Chalupa met with Ukrainian government officials to get information in an effort to expose ties between Trump, his former campaign manager Paul Manafort and Russia. As reported, a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy was instructed to help Chalupa conduct research on connections between Trump, Manafort and Russia. The DNC subsequently acknowledged that it had knowledge of the research.

thehill.com...

So why was it ok for DNC people to be meeting with foreign agents to get dirt on Trump? Why weren't Hillary's lawyers offices raided in the middle of the night? Why weren't those involved charged with crimes and then tried to flip on higher up people?

The reason is that the intel community, including Mueller, have lied the whole time. If they really cared about stopping foreign influence into our elections, they would have treated all foreign influences with the same amount of importance. Instead they did just the opposite, once more showing that at every level when someone from Trumps team has been investigated or charged, someone from Hillary's team committed the same crime and was let go.

Getting dirt from foreign nationals against your opponent, much like lying to congress or the FBI, or failing to register as a foreign lobbyist is only a crime if someone connected to Trump does it.

Personally, I think Trump should use the same illegal tactics against the left for the 2020 presidential election. I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but they've already exposed the double standards with our justice department. I think it's the only way to get the left to acknowledge the damage this will do in the long run. As you will notice they won't be here to condemn these actions and will most likely cheer them on as they have been for the last 2 years.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Personally, I think Trump should use the same illegal tactics against the left for the 2020 presidential election

I hate reading/hearing things like this. If someone in power abuses their authority, but it accomplishes something you are a proponent for, it is justified?

Example: if you want the wall to be built, and support executive overreach to get it accomplished

I completely disagree. Trump will always be demonized by the globalists and MSM, and will not be credited with the good things he has done, but it does not justify unconstitutional or illegal tactics. The integrity of our constitution is of paramount importance.

Just my 2 cents..

a reply to: Grambler

This is a crazy, underreported development. I don’t want to disparage it, but of course we should wait for all the facts, unlike the Russiaphbes.

Personally, I don’t even care that someone get’s dirt from foreign countries. But then again, the Clinton machine and their bureaucrat counterparts made the proverbial beds and they should lie in it. It is clear at almost every corner that it was them, not the Trump campaign, that is guilty of the very accusations they made against others.

a reply to: FamCore

I fully agree.

I do not want to root for the very wrong doings I protest against.

Those who do so, such as those cheering deep state corruption to take down trump, have no integrity and ought to be ashamed of themselves.

I will not throw my integrity away like them for a short term victory.

a reply to: Tartuffe

I agree wholeheartedly.

I dont care if campaigns get dirt on their opponents from foriegn people. It happens all the time.

But...

The dems have set the precedent.

So yes, we should want more details. But two important points.

1. The DNC admits they were aware someone affiliated with them was working with Ukrainain officials to get dirt on Trump.

2. There should at least be an equal investigation to find out the facts.

Of course the fact there isnt an investigation despite this being known since 2-16 shows that the intel agencies are not concerned with Foriegn influence that helped Hillary.

The fbi is so corrupt and so deep in the lefts pockets, somebody needs to clean that house, and get rid of everyone there and start new.

Trump won the election, therefore he and everyone involved in his campaign, transition, and administration are all co-conspirators and must be investigated and prosecuted for anything and everything possible.

Clinton on the other hand lost, and had the election stolen from Her therefore she and everyone involved with her campaign are off limits, untouchable, protected. She didn't win so it doesn't matter and at this point what difference does it make?

/liberal logic

I do not understand..... Is it really that hard, for Trump to send out some trusted seal teams to just raid the fbi HQ? Is he waiting on something else first? The more he stands by and lets this go on, the more it looks like he is possibly in on it and this is one big psyop, to keep us "thinking" things are gonna change when in reality, it will not.

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening
I do not understand..... Is it really that hard, for Trump to send out some trusted seal teams to just raid the fbi HQ? Is he waiting on something else first? The more he stands by and lets this go on, the more it looks like he is possibly in on it and this is one big psyop, to keep us "thinking" things are gonna change when in reality, it will not.

There is more trump could do, just as declassifying material.

But a raid?

The [problem is that so much of these agencies are corrupt and establishment, it would be difficult to do.

Combine that with the cultural centers of influence all being 90% democrat (media, academia, entertainment, silicon valley) and the public outcry would be immense. Trump would be impeached or killed before anything would come to light if he declared martial law with a raid into these agencies.

The best bet is to declassify and for people in the know to inform others of this corruption.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening
I do not understand..... Is it really that hard, for Trump to send out some trusted seal teams to just raid the fbi HQ? Is he waiting on something else first? The more he stands by and lets this go on, the more it looks like he is possibly in on it and this is one big psyop, to keep us "thinking" things are gonna change when in reality, it will not.

There is more trump could do, just as declassifying material.

But a raid?

The [problem is that so much of these agencies are corrupt and establishment, it would be difficult to do.

Combine that with the cultural centers of influence all being 90% democrat (media, academia, entertainment, silicon valley) and the public outcry would be immense. Trump would be impeached or killed before anything would come to light if he declared martial law with a raid into these agencies.

The best bet is to declassify and for people in the know to inform others of this corruption.

It is a touchy situation indeed, and an all out raid would be extreme. Hopefully he declassifies or does something at least. What would stop him from releasing in your opinion?

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening
I do not understand..... Is it really that hard, for Trump to send out some trusted seal teams to just raid the fbi HQ? Is he waiting on something else first? The more he stands by and lets this go on, the more it looks like he is possibly in on it and this is one big psyop, to keep us "thinking" things are gonna change when in reality, it will not.

There is more trump could do, just as declassifying material.

But a raid?

The [problem is that so much of these agencies are corrupt and establishment, it would be difficult to do.

Combine that with the cultural centers of influence all being 90% democrat (media, academia, entertainment, silicon valley) and the public outcry would be immense. Trump would be impeached or killed before anything would come to light if he declared martial law with a raid into these agencies.

The best bet is to declassify and for people in the know to inform others of this corruption.

It is a touchy situation indeed, and an all out raid would be extreme. Hopefully he declassifies or does something at least. What would stop him from releasing in your opinion?

He is probably waiting until Mueller investigation is over (which is fine I guess) or waiting to release it closer to the election to help him (which I am against, it shouldnt be a political tool, it should be classified for justice).

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Personally, I think Trump should use the same illegal tactics against the left for the 2020 presidential election

I hate reading/hearing things like this. If someone in power abuses their authority, but it accomplishes something you are a proponent for, it is justified?

Example: if you want the wall to be built, and support executive overreach to get it accomplished

I completely disagree. Trump will always be demonized by the globalists and MSM, and will not be credited with the good things he has done, but it does not justify unconstitutional or illegal tactics. The integrity of our constitution is of paramount importance.

Just my 2 cents..

This is such an important point.

It's like the censorship thing: many (seemingly many) leftists, or at least many Trump Haters, are ALL FOR right-wing (or even centrist) views and ideas being censored. But once it starts being applied to their voices (and it will, if we continue letting it happen), they will decry it as loud as they are supporting the censorship now.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: CosmicAwakening
I do not understand..... Is it really that hard, for Trump to send out some trusted seal teams to just raid the fbi HQ? Is he waiting on something else first? The more he stands by and lets this go on, the more it looks like he is possibly in on it and this is one big psyop, to keep us "thinking" things are gonna change when in reality, it will not.

There is more trump could do, just as declassifying material.

But a raid?

The [problem is that so much of these agencies are corrupt and establishment, it would be difficult to do.

Combine that with the cultural centers of influence all being 90% democrat (media, academia, entertainment, silicon valley) and the public outcry would be immense. Trump would be impeached or killed before anything would come to light if he declared martial law with a raid into these agencies.

The best bet is to declassify and for people in the know to inform others of this corruption.

It is a touchy situation indeed, and an all out raid would be extreme. Hopefully he declassifies or does something at least. What would stop him from releasing in your opinion?

He is probably waiting until Mueller investigation is over (which is fine I guess) or waiting to release it closer to the election to help him (which I am against, it shouldnt be a political tool, it should be classified for justice).

remember he was warned that releasing that information (declass), would be seen as obstruction in the Mueller probe. So his hands were tied, but won't be once the report is released.

I try to not be involved in news that counters my views, as to not look like an idiot, so I understand why this thread doesn't get much attention from the leftovers. But as I have said before, if we just got back to equal justice, I think a whole lot of the divide could be erased. I don't hate liberals, I just think they are wrong. And some not as wrong as others. But if they grew even a tiny bit of integrity and voiced concern over the way things are one sided, I know I would have a new found respect for those who did.

a reply to: FamCore

I hate reading/hearing things like this. If someone in power abuses their authority, but it accomplishes something you are a proponent for, it is justified?

Nope, I'd call it a dose of their own medicine. Like I said at the beginning, I know 2 wrongs don't make a right. But, It doesn't take a genius to realize this will be repeated by the left if it's not used against them, which would give them a reason to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future. Trump and the Republicans taking the high road and just sitting by hoping justice will do a 180 and magically target the Dems for their crimes is a pipedream. We all know it and have seen it over and over.

Example: if you want the wall to be built, and support executive overreach to get it accomplished

Doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but considering illegal immigration costs taxpayers over $100 Billion/year. I'd consider it a true emergency compared to some of Obama's emergencies declared. I just hope the next terrorist that gets through our southern border attacks a place consisting of people primarily against the border wall.

I completely disagree. Trump will always be demonized by the globalists and MSM, and will not be credited with the good things he has done, but it does not justify unconstitutional or illegal tactics. The integrity of our constitution is of paramount importance.

I wasn't looking for someone to agree with me and the constitution has been taking hits nonstop from the left for years now. Sure, we can shut up and not do anything about it, but I disagree with that stance. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

a reply to: CosmicAwakening

Yeah I'm afraid that a good description of the state of affairs. Trump talked about bringing the boys home from foreign wars and yet nothing really changed. Business as usual drugs still coming into the US from Afghanistan.

Saudis sold billions in weapons to continue war in Yemen

"Arms sales to Saudis leave American fingerprints on Yemen's carnage"
www.nytimes.com...

Maybe Trump was genuine but warned off making too many waves.

The deep State has had practice since the assassination of the Kennedys and subsequent cover ups.

a reply to: Grambler

This entire fiasco of lies and subversion by the Dems has created a serious problem. If trump acts on all the criminality and treason by the Dems he will be painted as a dictator, a fascist and totalitarian attacking his political enemies. At least that will be the lamestream media line along with their bleeding heart dog and pony show for all those poor poor criminal-but-it's-ok dems.

If trump does nothing, it shows he's weak, has no resolve or direction and is incapable of fixing the problems of government corruption. It is on both sides, he has a mess to fix. So what can he do? He can start by making all the reports public and unredacted, these asshole dems had no problem with their unmasking of Trump's associates. He also has to get the info disseminated to every country so news sources have a harder time avoiding disclosure.

He has to look closely at US allies like Canada, the UK, Australia and get to the bottom of whose feeding misinformation and publicly unmask them. It's hard to operate when information is being withheld or you're being fed misinformation on the status of friends and enemies.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: CosmicAwakening

Yeah I'm afraid that a good description of the state of affairs. Trump talked about bringing the boys home from foreign wars and yet nothing really changed. Business as usual drugs still coming into the US from Afghanistan.

Saudis sold billions in weapons to continue war in Yemen

"Arms sales to Saudis leave American fingerprints on Yemen's carnage"
www.nytimes.com...

Maybe Trump was genuine but warned off making too many waves.

The deep State has had practice since the assassination of the Kennedys and subsequent cover ups.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

He has to look closely at US allies like Canada, the uk, Australia and get to the bottom of whose feeding misinformation and publically unmask them. It's hard to operate when information is being withheld or you're being fed missininformatiom on the status of friends and enemies.

The 5 eyes group are compromised as well. Remember that the Australian Govt paid $125 million into the Clinton Foundation.

Alexander Downers involvement ...

Donald Trump aide's booze-fuelled admission to Alexander Downer 'helped spark FBI probe into Russian election interference'

www.abc.net.au...