Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: pigsy2400

My spider senses tell me sweet nothing at this point.

But am all ears....and eyes.
👀

a reply to: karl 12

Thanks guys for your replies, I did not intend to drift this post into political considerations (these are too much subjective to be cleared out in an internet forum anyway).
Sorry Pigsy for the mix up! It is actually interesting that I've assumed so; probably due to my own cultural conditioning

There's no need to apologize, its the same with any text based conversation; the context of which is usually translated by the reader.

It is interesting that you thought I was American lol; I would say the majority of the users on ATS are American. Politics and Ufology are not too dissimilar in all honesty; I simply try and stay away from it as most of ATS is a political mud-pit already and the UFO forums largely are the last bastion of safety on ATS from all that stuff.

However, there are some valid points in terms of the two topics, I think it has more to do with the politics of spying and getting one over on your adversaries, whether real or imagined,than anything flying around in the skies, but maybe that's a different thread.



a reply to: Zedoo

originally posted by: Zedoo
a reply to: karl 12

Thanks guys for your replies, I did not intend to drift this post into political considerations (these are too much subjective to be cleared out in an internet forum anyway).
Sorry Pigsy for the mix up! It is actually interesting that I've assumed so; probably due to my own cultural conditioning

You don’t have to apologize…


IMO, For the most part, this is a gentle Ladies and men’s thread where we try to discuss opinions without rancor. Your opinion is fine as anyone’s as long as it’s done with sincere intent and I give everyone the benefit of that doubt.

An interview that TDL did recently....


Heres the full link if the Embedded Video doesnt work
YouTube Interview Link

TDL;
I was struck, kind of, by public consciousness because there’s a lot of studies that have been done, and a lot within the US government as well that I’m aware of, but that your mind… your mind over matter… that saying is very true… where they found, and I actually have a really amazing sensitive document that… and I’d always tell people about this, where they actually were…it was part of the UFO program at the Pentagon. They were following this kid in China that can move objects with his mind and he was like 10 years old.

It appears, that some of the aspects that TDL was covering were later corrected by Hal Puthoff, as noted by Danny Silva. Hal appears to have contacted Danny correcting him on what TDL had stated;

Hal Puthoff;
Danny, Tom got this wrong in details.

1. The report on Chinese children carrying out the PK experiments was NOT part of the Pentagon’s DIA UAP program effort (e.g., AATIP etc.) but rather part of an earlier DIA Remote Viewing program effort that I founded & directed for 13 years.

2. The official sensitive (DIA) document had nothing to do with the U.S. gov carrying out such experiments. Rather it was simply a translation of a Chinese research report that was being circulated among U.S. researchers for evaluation.

Upon correcting Tom DeLonge on the details of the Chinese PK experiment reports, he responded thusly:

“Thank you for clarifying that, I do talk about this a lot because I think it was a great way to show people that the mind matters! I will correct it going forward.”

Best regards,

Hal

Here is also what appears to be an email from Colm Kelleher to Chalker, essentially in my view more of an attempt to try and hoover up data from locations/sources outside of the US, in this instance Austrailia and China

a reply to: pigsy2400

So, what everybody want to know is: Who is "Red Collie"???

originally posted by: pigsy2400

China. Putting aside for the moment Kit Green's connections/interests in Beijing which could be interpreted a few different ways, the U.S. has always had problems penetrating the CCP's intelligence apparatus for a variety of reasons.

The above email roughly coincides with the event(s) linked below and I imagine we've attempted what we've said others have done to us: Use Ufology to hoover up information about black projects and other potentially useful intel in other countries.

Not sure the theory is a piece of the puzzle, but not not sure either. Colm mentions China and then circles back to China again---which looks like somewhat of a "tell" to me.

Dozens of US spies killed after Iran and China uncovered CIA messaging service using Google

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Good question, I only found him through searching for both Chalker and "Red Collie" in the same search parameters as ones including Colm didn't come back with anything and the connective tissue here is those two and links to Australia as made clear in the email.

Dr. Horace Drew (aka Red Collie)

Horace Drew grew up in Florida during the 1960s and 70s, then took a Ph.D in Chemistry at Caltech in 1981, where he did several of the first high-resolution x-ray structures of DNA. He then spent five years between 1982-1987 doing post-doctoral research on DNA and chromosomes at the MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology in Cambridge. He moved to Australia in 1987 and has lived there ever since. Later in the 1990s he began to do DNA forensic research as a private hobby with UFO investigator Bill Chalkler. Horace became interested in crop circles only in 2002, when the Crooked Soley 'curved DNA' formation showed what he and other colleagues were meeting to discuss, just 50 km away in Cambridge!

Source

What's interesting here and potentially relates to some of GUTS comments, is that this guy appears to have made some real ground in his chosen field and was a part of Australias National Science Agency BUT then goes all crazy for crop circles and even involves himself in Rendlesham and the whole time traveller aspect.

So yeah...Oh and another biologist, I swear the ratio of biologists with an "interest" in ufology mist be like 100/1 when compared to astronomers

a reply to: mirageman

"And some,... I assume, are good people.:
LOL...! Awesome use of a great line!

Now check this out...Listen up.

I know our UK friends are sleep.

They can peruse this item later.


Anyway...Okay, though not directly related to this OPs subject but certainly legitimately peripherally involved; we need to keep a close eye on the Skinwalker series. They tonight saw a legit UFO and we viewers also witnessed it.


I’m not making much out of the UFO necessarily, it may be something worthwhile, but nonetheless since the show has created a direct link from the US government to Bigelow and to the present owner it stands to reason to keep a suspicious eye on this show which may be a part of some kind of “disclosure” operation or part of our ongoing disinformation or misinformation UFO program.



They announcing so flagrantly at the beginning of the show, something I pointed out last week, that the government has been studying the mysterious SKR for 20 years (oh really) and now has a new owner and it’s not our proverbial Robert Bigelow anymore.

Then, more strangely, they say what Robert Bigelow discovered on the ranch in their years of investigations through NIDS is now classified or confidential…umm...I wonder how a private citizen; Bigelow, gets something classified?

Here’s one interesting premise: They want to keep Bigelow, as they say in IC parlance---clean.

So they get the new guy to “ disclose”

Now, I’m not ready to pull out the conspiracy hysteria yet, BUT…
Are they running a quasi “disclosure” op through this show?


Not through Robert Bigelow but this new guy, the present owner, who has put his rep on the line and created this show.

So, are we at the beginning of an organized-- chain-of-evidence laden-- " disclosure" misinformation program?

link

One more thing:

The US-UFO-IC community=SWR-Ranch-new owner=Robert Bigelow=TTSA?

a reply to: pigsy2400

Red Collie....oh dear oh dear. Didn't linda Houwe pay Red Collie to do the Rendlesham research 😁

www.therendleshamforestincident.com...

But alas Gary Osborn became the star of the show and old Horace dropped. I guess linda would not of been too charmed at the time.


Horrace had close contact with a time traveler.

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

Get busy . Horrace is a wlld ride.😁

In fairness to Bill Chalker and to represent a fair balance here, he has posted his response to Colm's email on his blog last week. I noted that the other blogger who had posted Colm's email to Bill had NOT posted Bills response - clearly because it would contradict their own personal views and in my opinion; agenda with their close links to TTSA as one of their heavy promoters.

Bills comments taken from his blog and sourced below;

Bills comments on this;


While I've been taking an interest and occasionally participated in the attempts of many researchers to unravel the real story of the BAASS/ATTIP saga, my own advocacy of "an open science of UFOs and UAPs" has always meant I've looked at both BAASS and ATTIP as not good examples of "open science", in fact they are rather secretive.

That was not part of their agenda it seemed. The progress and evolution of a real UFO/UAP science would be benefited if it was part of their agenda. As some of these players moved on to vehicles like TTSA, caution seems appropriate, given that even TTSA are not very transparent. Instead of "jig-saw puzzles", "breadcrumbs" and fragments in a convoluted tale of clandestine investigations, we might have had an evolution of an open UFO/UAP science. While there are notable exceptions and great attempts to do "open science" in this area, the secretive approach seems to dominate. When organisations like MUFON chase after relationships with secretive type organisations then open UFO science and UFO research will be threatened.

I had these sorts of issues in mind when in 2010 I had overtures from Robert Bigelow's BAASS organisation to assist them with UFO data from Australia and China.

I was more concerned that this was going to be all one way and that feedback would be unlikely.

Page 1


Page 2


He finishes by stating;

I was expecting some sort of collegial response and perhaps some discussion on the issue of reciprocity, and perhaps even some suggesting on support for the work required to get the data together. However I guess my comments, particularly on transparency and sharing were not in line with what BAASS had in mind. So in the end that was it. No response was received and that was the full extent of my relationship with BAASS.

Source

a reply to: Willtell

There is no way that Bigelow would sign off on the consistent mentions of his name and the use of his picture in every episode of this show if he did not approve of it in some fashion.

I agree that this seems to be an attempt to recreate the Bigelow study of the ranch in a public setting using civilians with no security oaths. In other words declassify the phenomenon in real time on television. It's an interesting idea.

The question remains: Do they really want to tell us the truth - even if that truth is some boring electromagnetic anomaly - or do they want to spin this toward some agenda? Given the Mormon and evangelical connections I have my suspicions.

Yes, CC, the Mormon connection is a heart-sinking detail. (No offence to our Mormon brethren; I'd love a harem of wives, too.)

originally posted by: Willtell
... we need to keep a close eye on the Skinwalker series. They tonight saw a legit UFO and we viewers also witnessed it.

A cotton-pickin' UFO?!

TBH, I still haven't watched beyond the first two minutes of episode 1, the incentive to delve further delayed by the opening revelation of a dead calf after three months of filming. And not even a mysteriously dissected calf in the good 'ole fashioned manner of the 'Hunt For The Skinwalker' fables related by Colm and Curious George back in 2005. Thinking that was the apex of their discoveries, I bailed as soon as the "Twelve weeks earlier..." caption appeared.

PS: Which episode featured the UFO? I'll simply jump to it and avoid the reportedly bad scripts and atrocious acting by the unlikable meatheads patrolling the ranch. Perhaps the show improved, and I was wrong to be thoroughly bored after two minutes.

What have been your personal highlights from the show so far, Will, aside from the overt efforts to keep Mr Bige's rep squeaky clean?

a reply to: coursecatalog


I agree with you. I’m not a lawyer but in the sales documents, I bet they’re provisions for Bigelow to be involved with certain of the actions of the buyer, maybe in the next 20 years or so, something like that.

I am also referring to disclosure along the mis(d)isinformation lines as you suggest not any legitimate disclosure of the reality of UFOs or related phenomena.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
Yes, CC, the Mormon connection is a heart-sinking detail. (No offence to our Mormon brethren; I'd love a harem of wives, too.)

PS: Which episode featured the UFO? I'll simply jump to it and avoid the reportedly bad scripts and atrocious acting by the unlikable meatheads patrolling the ranch. Perhaps the show improved, and I was wrong to be thoroughly bored after two minutes.

The "UFO" is from Episode 4 of Season 1. Here is a promo for it, showing the UFO. BFD. People are suggesting that it is either a balloon, or perhaps an aircraft.

Robert Sheaffer

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: RobertSheaffer
The "UFO" is from Episode 4 of Season 1. Here is a promo for it, showing the UFO. BFD. People are suggesting that it is either a balloon, or perhaps an aircraft.

Robert Sheaffer

www.youtube.com...

It wouldn't surprise me if it was a balloon, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone involved with the show knows someone who launched it.

But the rich ranch owner, Brandon Fugal, asking what it is, should be able to afford a better camera to get a better image than this if he really wants to know what it is, right?


However that could backfire. If the better camera shows it's actually a balloon, or otherwise makes the object identifiable, bam there goes the mystery and the ratings, so he better keep using the crappy camera that's out of focus so we can't tell what it is, to keep the ratings up.

This new Blue Blurry Lines article really gets into the weeds following the money trail from the government to Mr. Biggs to MUFON and our merry band of scientists.

The Pentagon UFO Money Trail