The nature of Reality: what's beneath the form?

a reply to: kennyb72

I find that it disagrees with most people.
The religious ones discard it since it contradicts their faith.
The "science" guys discard it since it doesn't meet the required conditions to be valid (sources, experimentation, etc).

In the end, I'm left with the open minded and curious. But maybe that's for the best!

a reply to: Marma

find that it disagrees with most people.
The religious ones discard it since it contradicts their faith.
The "science" guys discard it since it doesn't meet the required conditions to be valid (sources, experimentation, etc).

I think that it pretty well describes my experience too.
Something I discovered having studied hylozoics is, I look back at it now, almost as a supernatural experience. I don't know what changed, at what point, but I was different.

Hylozoism describes two kinds of enlightenment, emotional enlightenment as attained through deep meditation, (which I am yet to experience), or a Mental enlightenment, which is equally as mind blowing and its as if you standing taller and view the scene from a larger perspective. I can't explain that to anyone, as you say, maybe that's for the best.

a reply to: Marma

There isn't anything beneath the form.
Nothing behind the curtain.

What is is and that's that.

Empty fullness.

a reply to: Marma

I think you might enjoy a discussion on youtube.....
'Jim Newman Simply This.'

a reply to: Marma

So you understand what is meant by the old adage “know thyself” ?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thanks, I will check out the video!
I kind of agree with you. In the end, all we see is nothing "lying" to itself convincing itself it's something and anti-something, when, taken together, it's just nothing. Like 0 pretending to be +1 and -1. However, from the perspective of the "fullness", and not the "empty", it's nonetheless important to reflect on why we see what we see. Nihilism and the circular reasoning of "what is, is", gets you nowhere. We are in the "fullness" part now, we may as well make the best of it, and think about the "empty" whenever we are that.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Yes. That is the key. All answers are within. And deconstructing what we "see" is part of this introspection process, in my mind.

a reply to: Marma

There isn't emptiness 'and' fullness...... there are no separate parts.

What is seen.... what is appearing..... this happening...... is all there is.

The form is empty.
Emptiness is form.

a reply to: Marma
Nothing will get you anywhere.
Where can you go?

Are you sure there is anything other than a movie playing?

Have you ever heard of Non-duality? It means not two.
There is a good talk called 'Nonduality and The Nature of the Self' on youtube that you might like.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

It sounds like determinism to me.
I don't like this "flight" beyond duality. Yes, it will happen, but for the moment, we are in duality, whether you like it or not. Exiting duality means basically, living like a blissed out master in a cave. Great, you've made it, you're now (e)motionless with a state of awareness which encompasses everything.

The separation between you and infinity is indeed artificial, but it is there for a reason. It will open when it has to. If you are happy being "nothing and everything" in the now, I'm glad for you! You made it! But for some reason, I feel that if that were truly the case, you wouldn't be here posting on the forum...

EDIT: I'm watching your Newman video, I feel very annoyed. I wonder if I follow him around all day, what he actually does... besides nothing... I have written something similar in my article, that basically we are like a drop in the ocean that artificially puts "limits" around itself when in fact, it IS the ocean. So yes, we are ALL one, but... so f***** what... That's my whole point. OK, there is only nothingness, and we are all one. So what? (It's a title of one of my articles by the way: we are all one, so what?)

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Oh well, that's it sorted then, everyone can go home, schools out for eternity i imagine.

As you just outlined how reality and the universe function in it entirety? LoL

Somehow Itisnowagain, i imagine it will turn out to be not just one curtain that's the issue, nor whats even behind it, but an infinite amount of said curtains that presents our dilemma.

originally posted by: [post=24179356]Marma[post]
As a summary, the reality we perceive is just a convenient interface for otherwise pure self-contained balls of energy/vibration to interact with other "things".

**SNIP** Mod Edit

If reality is what 'you' perceive...... what are you?

a reply to: Marma

A interesting read on this is www.amazon.co.uk...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1549902984&sr=8-1&keywords=the+cosmic+serpent it goes into detail about shamanism, and the use of tobacco by some yet others did not need even that to experience the trip .

I heard horror stories of young people who were paying crazy money to snort what was called Miracle grow plant food the hipsters would buy big drums of it 30kg put it in a blender and sell it for $ 30 a gram and call it Meow Meow and it led to many a death that i know off , never tried it thank god , a tin of beer and a J oint and i am good

I am more a whirling dervish guy on the round about in my local park tin of beer in one hand joint in my mouth like a good tradesman laughing like a 10 year old

a reply to: Itisnowagain

From your perspective, it is indeed.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

OK, I watched the whole interview.
What am I? I am everything that existed, exists, and ever existed right here, right now. I am you, I am the Universe. Except... No. I have the illusion to be myself, separate from everything. And I am totally fine with that.

Do you know what it is like to be everything?
On the scale of your own existence, it is as if you experienced being born while dying, having sex while sitting on the toilet with diarrhea, eating your favorite food while vomiting your guts out after a hangover, having your first tooth pulled out while taking an exam, suffocating during a hot summer day while freezing your ass off during a sky trip... all at the SAME TIME.

Now you understand why we are in this "illusion" where things happen sequentially. Anyone who attempts to escape it, will just go f****** mad. Which leads me to this obvious conclusion: you can BE everything at the same time, but you cannot EXPERIENCE being everything at the same time. Which is why you create an illusion where you experience seemingly sequentially, even though it's just ONE infinite eternal being experiencing him/her/itself.

Now, back to your life.

There truly is no thing but the form of creation. We talk about "nothingness" but that word is just a signifier of a lack of concepts and forms. Similarly one may talk of the canvas of reality but even that canvas is a concept, a form. Most think of "nothing" as dark and empty but in truth it is even less.

You seem to know this, but when you said nothingness pretends to be form through 1 and -1 that's not quite the case... See nothingness can't help but portray the dictates of possibility. And the first emanation of possibility is consciousness. Consciousness sees zero and creates infinity... Unable to truly comprehend it creates a split, a thing and a not thing which combine together to represent a concept of nothing which it can comprehend as zero. And nothingness must comply.

I believe the impulse towards enlightenment to be our empathy stirring us to relieve source of this pain. And that our efforts of consciousness do not go without meaning and gratitude, even when understood alone and without words; all that matters is the portrayal and enactment in space and time of that eternal other.

I also agree that stopping oneself in this space between infinity and nothing is not truly beneficial... Staying as pure awareness does nothing except make one feel good, lol. Instead one must do what seems insane and let go of our identity as part of infinity and release to nothingness.... When we do we become void but can't exist as that so in essence we get filtered through so only our core identity remains, that essence which is our truth and all else, all egoic attachments cyclical nature's and temporal distortions caused by trauma... All get washed away. It is a process, unfortunately we don't have a literal river Styx in which to bathe, but with careful attention to our inner silence we can achieve this balance, this return.

I would humbly suggest you take an amble over my profile, I have many threads in this very forum which I think you would take particular interest in ^^

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Shamanism is a very fascinating subject but I always recommend learning about these types of topics from those who one, not only have personal experience with it, but who also learned the hard core truth about what is actually happening...

TRUE Shamanism is a strong personal relationship with demons, this is WHY they have the incredible power.

These things ALWAYS lie, thus the reason for being VERY careful about who you listen to.

Best example of this I have ever seen, a Shaman from a village in Indonesia:

There was a pagan village called Tubunaus about three miles from Soe. One day a pagan priest called Sem Faet, who also had leprosy, was giving a sacrifice to his “blood god.” Jesus came and revealed Himself to this pagan priest. “I am the God you are seeking,” He said,. “This is not the way to worship Me.”

“Lord who are you and how do you want to be worshipped?” the priest asked. “I will tell you about name and how you are to worship Me later,” Jesus said. ” First you must gather all your images and witchcraft materials and burn them. When you do this, I will visit you again and tell you all about myself.” Then the Lord disappeared.

www.youtube.com...
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a reply to: LucidWarrior

Hi LucidWarrior,
Thanks for your comment.
I agree with many of the things you said.
I think the "goal" here, if there is such a thing, is to help everything/nothing experience itself to the fullest. Infinity or everything can be like an infinite scrambled puzzle. It doesn't make sense. It IS, it EXISTS all at the same time, but it's nothing or rather, it may as well be nothing, because if you ARE and you try to EXPERIENCE everything at the same time, you're really experiencing nothing, you ARE nothing. If you are at the same time hot AND cold, then you're really nothing at all, if you're experiencing being born AND dying, then it's as if you were experiencing neither.

So we are basically a way for an infinite scrambled puzzle to take a look at itself. The puzzle, of course, "solves" or experiences itself everywhere at the same time, but thanks to a clever trick (us, or the illusion of separation, separate consciousness), it gets to experience itself sequentially.

The impulse towards enlightenment, to me, is not so much about avoiding pain as it is in espousing your "role" as a good story teller. Everything was ALREADY experienced, so why experience pain for "the all" one extra time? We should also take the "cue" from the rest of the Universe. Everything acts "as ONE", in perfect balance/harmony, because that is a mirror reflection of everything. All atoms act in a "coordinated" manner: we call that the laws of physics. But where do the laws of physics come from? It is merely the manifestation of a state of consciousness: that of knowing/experiencing oneness. All atoms understand they are ONE, and so, they act as one. Nothing in this Universe, besides us, escapes this. Even Nature's ecosystems, taken as a whole, balance in completely mysterious ways. Predators, prey, insects, vegetation... Given enough time, it all reaches a state of equilibrium, as if it was all orchestrated by some "higher power". Once WE truly really realize we are ONE, we are everything, we will start acting as such, that is, as one global collective organism in which every human is one individual cell. It doesn't mean we will be left without purpose blissed out in a cave, rather, it will be just like the cells in our body: we will be part of something much greater than we can imagine, turning inward (introspection) to find out who we are and how best to play "our part", just like each cell in our own body plays it's role flawlessly (otherwise you wouldn't stay alive very long).

I'll check out your threads, thanks!