Homepage What Happened When A Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall

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The article linked here is not mine but I think sums up the arguments against a wall between the US and Mexico very well.

The debate is being framed as, either a wall, or uncontrolled immigration. When the real debate should be about how to best address immigration in our current situation. When the real reason for the debate is political gain.

If we really want to address a problem, the first step is to define the problem.

Immigration itself is not a problem. Our ancestors are all immigrants, it's an important part of us as humans. Much of our growth as a species is bound up in exploring our world and adapting to what we find. Not just in different physical environments but in interactions with different societies of humans.

We are, of course, in a different world. A world of national boundaries. A more crowded world that changes what the problems with immigration are and what the solutions to those problems should be.

A wall is an attempt at addressing those problems with old simplistic ideas. An idea that never really solved anything for very long. Would a wall, however you define it, really stop drugs, would it really make a difference in an economy?

or........is it really just a play in a political game?

a reply to: villagesmithie

I'll bite. How do you propose to stop people from illegally crossing the border?

a reply to: pavil

Above my pay grade.

I'm not saying I can solve it but if you read the article you will see that the majority of illegal immigrants are people who fly in and overstay.

I don't see how a wall fixes that.

and.......I'm not big on paying for repairs that don't address the problem.

a reply to: villagesmithie

The only gamesmanship I am seeing is "we supported it before but if Trumps wants it then it's bad."

As far as walls not working, we should talk to Nancy Pelosi about that.

Google earth her house in San Francisco.

You will find around it a wall... one described as "stone and rather massive."

Framing an argument about immigration being OK because our ancestors did it is intellectually dishonest.

300 years ago, do you think that people migrated into this country, settled down on food stamps and found a construction job under the table?

100 years ago, do you think that immigrants were not vetted, given a basic medical exam and then turned away if they didn't pass?

And now to today... where we have laws on the books that would be somewhat adequate if it wasn't for political activists wearing black robes interpreting and basically writing laws from the bench?

As for the economy, the lesser estimate of what it costs us people paying taxes in the United States for illegal immigrants is 250 Billion dollars a year. Direct costs, not indirect, which would push it to the 500 billion dollar a year amount.

Yet Democrats, who have never in my lifetime given a rat's ass about spending suddenly can't support 5 billion dollars for something they voted to spend 15 billion on not 10 years ago.

Your entire OP is baseless and partisan.

We won't even get into the opioid epidemic that is mostly fueled by an open southern border, sex and human trafficking, gang members and terrorists wandering up north for the good life.

So yes, in closing, it is just a political game.

On one side, you have a President that wants to do what he was elected for.

On the other side, you have bad politicians that have no issue with their own citizens being murdered, raped, robbed and kidnapped because if they keep the border open, they get a constant flood of undocumented Democratic voters to keep them in power.

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: pavil

Above my pay grade.

I'm not saying I can solve it but if you read the article you will see that the majority of illegal immigrants are people who fly in and overstay.

I don't see how a wall fixes that.

Let's be frank, the illegal immigration that gets people upset the most is the kind from south of our border where we have uneducated and poor people crossing our borders. How many Ms-13 members are over staying visas? not many.

This stat is liberals playing loose with the numbers. A tourist or student over staying a visa, while illegal, is not really what most people are thinking when it comes to illegal immigration.

With that said, I have an issue with illegal immigration, no matter their source, but it is the south of border kind that is what the wall needs to address.

a reply to: villagesmithie

Could you link us the article?

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: pavil

Above my pay grade.

I'm not saying I can solve it but if you read the article you will see that the majority of illegal immigrants are people who fly in and overstay.

I don't see how a wall fixes that.

and.......I'm not big on paying for repairs that don't address the problem.

So you don't have any ideas of how to stop illegal immigration to our Country?

I'm shocked.

You need to try harder than that.

Btw, you didn't include any links.

a reply to: strongfp

source


OOOPPPS.

a reply to: pavil

Hey, I don't even remember links. How am I supposed solve the worlds problems?

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: pavil

Hey, I don't even remember links. How am I supposed solve the worlds problems?

....you do have that going for you.

So you don't know what could or would work if it hasn't be tried before?

a reply to: villagesmithie

And what about the thousands of pounds of illegal drugs coming in? How are they getting that on commercial flights?

Or the low income criminals coming in? How are they getting on commercial flights when they can’t afford a ticket and have a record?

Oh yeah there all walking across an unprotected border to a country with prisons that look like country clubs compared to Mexican prisons. So why commit crime there when it’s much more lucrative here and the prisons are nicer.

The immigrants that come here legally to work and overstay their welcome but continue to work are not really the problem. The problem is the illegal immigrants that come here illegally,and are forced into a life of crime because they can’t find legal work due to the circumstances they put themselves into. And much worse are the people either willfully or against their will working for the cartels to bring drugs and more illegals across the border.

The point is the wall will help stop a lot of that, and dems like to point out that you can climb the wall or dig under it. Well let them try, at least it’s harder than walking across an invisible line in the sand. Do you think digging a tunnel through compact desert is easy? It’s not, and it’s not like there digging right at the wall because that’s to conspicuous, they start sometimes hundreds of feet from the border and take serious engineering to make them safe. Then we find and destroy the tunnel and they have to start all over again.

I must insist all the communists remove their doors from their homes.

Intertwitbook has turned a bunch of people with too much time on their hands and no life skills into raging progressive political threats.

Not for ban hammers, but politics need douched from social media.

We can all see who controls this crap and it's being weaponized against our rights, using idiots that vote to do it.

a reply to: villagesmithie

If we could just turn America into a broke sh'ithole nation, the flow of illegal immigrants and heroin would drop dramatically. That's how you attack THE SOURCE of the problem.

a reply to: pavil

No.

The point of the article is that a wall won't.

My point in the OP is that the debate is about politics not a solution to Immigration.

In fact immigration is not the problem it's portrayed to be but a political tool.

a reply to: villagesmithie

If walls and barriers are passé and outdated, just remove them from prisons.

a reply to: Quantumgamer1776

From the original article.

3. Walls have little impact on drugs being brought in to the US. According to the DEA, almost all drugs come in through legal points of entry, hidden in secret containers and/or among legit goods in tractor-trailers. A wall will have little to no impact on the influx of drugs into our country.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: villagesmithie

If walls and barriers are passé and outdated, just remove them from prisons.

And I would insist that all politicians go without a guard detail (security) and live in a home with no fences or (border security) until the problem is resolved.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Great debate technique. Avoid the real debate go for the absurd to make it sound crazy.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Did you see the photo going around today of wall that successfully keeps people out of the VATICAN compound? It's a monster!

a reply to: Lumenari

Read the article.

6. Border patrol agents don’t like concrete or steel walls because they block surveillance capabilities. In other words, they can’t mobilize correctly to meet challenges. So in many ways, a wall makes their job more difficult.

7. Border patrol agents say, “Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up.”