Homepage What Happened When A Trump Supporter Challenged Me About the Wall

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: Lumenari

Yes i'm sure i"m stupid in your mind. Read the article, check the references, prove it wrong.

Explain and defend what you believe in. You should be able to do that. If you can't argue your point in your own words your belief and opinion is meaningless.

A good debater and critical thinker should also be able to debate for the opposing view also.

But since you can't even articulate your belief using your own words, I guess the other point is quite a bit beyond your ability.

C'mon laddy, step up and wow us.

a reply to: villagesmithie

The wall is politically motivated.

originally posted by: Grambler

9. An unintended consequence is that a wall blocks farmworkers from EXITING when their invaluable seasonal work is done. Farmers are against the wall because it makes getting cheap seasonal labor almost impossible as few American citizens want or can even do those jobs. And if seasonal worker do get in, a wall makes it harder for them to leave! A wall traps migrant farm laborers in our country.

Incredibly dumb argument that contradiucts number 8. Why wouldnt they just leave in the natural barriers she said would be exploited.

Once an illegal wants to leave, they could approach the wall and even tell the border patrol they were illegal and be sent home. Why would the wall force border patrol to allow illegals to stay. This argument is so dumb it makes me question all of the other points she is making.

10. Trump’s $5 billion is a laughable drop in the bucket for what would ACTUALLY be needed. For example, according to the Cato Institute: An estimate for a border wall area that only covered 700 miles was originally 1.2 billion. How much did it REALLY cost? SEVEN BILLION. And that’s only for 700 miles. Whatever we think it’s going to cost, experience shows us we have to multiply it by more than 500%.

11. According to MIT engineers, the wall would cost $31.2 billion. Homeland Security estimates it at $22 billion. Given the pattern of spending mentioned in number 10 (plus Murphy’s Law), that means we’re really talking about pouring endless billions into something that doesn’t even work. And, of course, we taxpayers will be footing the bill, not Mexico. Given all the drawbacks, is that REALLY the best use of our taxes?

First even the 32 billion is a pittance compared to our massive 4.5 trillion dollar budget. Given that we can send hundreds of billions of dollars in foriegn aid without people like this author complaining, why is price only a concern when securing the border?

This author then goes on to say no one could rebut her well reasoned arguments.

Perhaps she needs to be friends with someone like me who did so in about ten minutes.

I still contend the majority opposition to the wall is fear it will work, as the establishment in both parties like the cheap labor of illegal immigrants.

I've decided that I'm going to use the lefts tactics s against. And to be honest it has worked so much better than I thought it would in real life and in Fakebook.

It goes like this: everyone that is for open borders/unlimited immigration and no wall is Pro-slavery for corporate profit and/or Pro-Sex and human trafficking.

Outrage at first, but it works. And well.

If everyone on the right is a Nazi Hitler then as far as I'm concerned what I said above is true for all on the left and of course the RINOS on the right.

a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: kwakakev

Actually no.

I have a life to live with plenty of more pressing problems. To assume I'm going to come on a conspiracy site and change any thing would by crazy.

I can hope to kick the debate up a notch...........not hopeful.

Oh good lord. Get over yourself.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: Grambler
Where did I wish ill on others there? "Karma's a bitch"? I'm pointing out the fact that American history isn't all that bright and pretty, what with all the mass slaughter and genocide. I thought the pic made that amply clear. I guess not.

Which was different from what country on the planet? Give me just one example of a country that doesn't have that in its past please.

The problem with you Stalinists is that ou have somehow been lead to believe that what you mentioned is somehow unique to the United States.

And since we are on it do you believe that Americans have the right to slaughter invaders like the Natives did to the Europeans? And if not, why not?

originally posted by: Skid Mark
I guess it would help if the US would stop destabilizing their countries. Then they wouldn't be so inclined to come here.

Under Trump America has for the most part.

Trying to normalize relations with Russia concerning the Ukraine and the Neo Nazi thugs that Obama and Nuland spent $5 billion installing. Check.

Pulling support from the conflict in Yemen. Check.

Pulling back in Afghanistan and Syria. Check.

No governments overthrown in South America. Check.

In fact almost ALL the conflicts the US is actively involved in are squarely at the feet of your boy Obama and your homegirl Hillary.

Libya, Yemen, Syria, Ukraine. Etc etc.

In fact since you brought it up the only president in the last 10 years to overthrow a S.American government is your homeboy and homegirl.

That nation was Honduras where they worked to topple the government and install a convicted Cocaine Smuggler as President.

Hmmmm, where have we heard Honduras in the news in the last 6 weeks? Do you know or would you like me to remind you? Nah, just kidding I'll tell ya.........oh ya it was the starting point for the Democrat Migrant Train.

What an astounding coincidence!!!! Totes unrelated though! Just a good old coinky coinky dink. Move along nothing to see here citizen.

Would you care for some Soma?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Carcharadon

You're on facebook and twitter, are there any other lefty social media sites you are addicted to ?

I'm not on Twitter. Stop listening to the voices in your head and get back on your meds please

Real life and Facebook.

I clearly typed those. Nada about Twitter. Also why would you think I'm addicted to Facebook? Because I go on it a couple times a day to check on hockey, hiking and Warhammer 40k pages and sometimes have political debates? Lots of assumptions in that measly one sentence drive by hey fella?

Nice self-burn champ.

a reply to: caterpillage

Are there any drugs in prisons?

Walls don't solve problems.

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: caterpillage

Are there any drugs in prisons?

Walls don't solve problems.

Would there be more drugs in prison with or without walls?

And has been so clearly pointed out to you in multiple posts: Yes, walls can solve problems. Lots of evidence if you wanted to find it.

We know you wont but at least the advice is out there so you cant keep claiming ignorance.

Walls work.

a reply to: Carcharadon

I don't fancy myself a good debater. Doesn't matter.

I know you don't want to except the points in the article. That's kind of the point of the article.

My opinion. The wall doesn't solve a problem. It is a political tool to rally support for a narcissistic wannabe king who doesn't have any real solutions the same as he doesn't have any real products to offer just advertising and claims for fantasies.

Further more the whole immigration panic is a sales pitch to rally the base.

a reply to: Carcharadon

Walls work up to a point. They don't solve a problem.

And, I don't want to live in a prison.

a reply to: Lumenari

Absolutely.

Trumps focus is the wall. Why do you suppose that is?

a reply to: Trueman

That's hilarious.

How many of those "caravans" do you suppose there were before or even after the elections?

Seemed like a staged event to me. From BOTH sides.

How many "GREAT" offers have you bought while watching late night infomercials?

I think for myself. I question any videos I watch.

Deny ignorance?

a reply to: villagesmithie

You read an article. Then debate it's merits.

"Dude go read the article"

"I dont have any solutions, just read the article" is not.

Grambler already took it a part in his 2 posts and obviously read the article. You have yet to address his points

a reply to: villagesmithie

Because unlike most politicans, his campaign promises weren't jusy empty words, he actually meant what He said and is trying to do what he was elected to.

Concept lost on many people today, that someone would actually stand by his words.

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: Carcharadon

I don't fancy myself a good debater. Doesn't matter.

I know you don't want to except the points in the article. That's kind of the point of the article.

My opinion. The wall doesn't solve a problem. It is a political tool to rally support for a narcissistic wannabe king who doesn't have any real solutions the same as he doesn't have any real products to offer just advertising and claims for fantasies.

Further more the whole immigration panic is a sales pitch to rally the base.

Well you can have your opinion and your feels. Doesn't change the fact that walls provably work as has been pointed out to you mang times here.

Feelings don't trump facts in this reality sorry to burst your bubble.

The only reason you oppose it is because of Trump. You most likely nodded sagely when Obama was talking about doing the same thing years ago.

originally posted by: villagesmithie
a reply to: Lumenari

Absolutely.

Trumps focus is the wall. Why do you suppose that is?

Why do you think all the Democrats were for it prior to Trump but aren't now?

Couldn't be to play politics and deny him a major campaign promise could it?

Nah.

originally posted by: samuelsson
a reply to: villagesmithie

Because unlike most politicans, his campaign promises weren't jusy empty words, he actually meant what He said and is trying to do what he was elected to.

Concept lost on many people today, that someone would actually stand by his words.

So you are actually arguing Trump is so truthful he is an example we should all aspire to be like.

I see an opening for another trump university, "truthiness 101" ,where you learn the art of integrity and sportsmanship...

Oh, the poor little thing! She put forward a bunch of misrepresentations and no one took her to task!

Allow me to fix that here...

1. Walls don’t work.

Walls always work. Always. There has never in the history of the world been a time when a wall did not work. It won't stop airplanes or tunnels or overstaying VISAs, because that's not what it is supposed to do. It is supposed to make it harder for unvetted aliens to illegally cross the border in areas between patrols, because it will take longer to do so.

This is number one for a reason, I suppose, because I consider it the single most inane, uninformed, unintelligent argument against the wall of all. Yes, walls work. So do wheels, but should we quit using wheels because they don't keep airplanes aloft or make boats float?

2. Most illegal immigrants are “overstayers.”

And as such they will not be affected by a wall. So what? Again, wheels don't make boats float, so why would we use wheels?

President Trump has clearly stated on numerous occasions that the wall is one part of a more secure border.

3. Walls have little impact on drugs being brought in to the US.

According to the DEA, the drugs they caught were coming in through legal points of entry. And yet, we still have drugs coming in. So where are these other drugs, the ones the DEA did not catch at the ports of entry, coming across? Maybe places other than ports of entry, because there's nothing in someone's way but sand?

4. It’s environmentally impractical.

False.

It will affect migrant animals just as it affects migrant people, but those animals will simply find somewhere else to migrate to. As for plants, I have yet to hear of them migrating. There's not a lot of plants or animals along most of the border anyway, because the vast bulk of it is desert.

I'm not sure which side is being argued here... number one was that walls don't work, and now number 4 is that walls work too well...

5. A wall would forces the U.S. government to take land from private citizens in eminent domain battles.

Yes, it will. In return, it will stop cattle rustlers cold. Even if they bring ladders, what are they going to do? Teach the cows to climb ladders?

Eminent Domain has been used for national projects to benefit all since the beginning of the nation. If this is an actual argument, then I would suggest that all national parks and wildlife areas, which contribute absolutely nothing to national security, should also be closed and the land given to private citizens.

6. Border patrol agents don’t like concrete or steel walls because they block surveillance capabilities.

The wall segment in the foreground is a close resemblance of the final design. Notice it can be seen through.

Next.

7. Border patrol agents say, “Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up.”

The argument here is that it will require more people to patrol a wall than it will to patrol open desert, which is laughable. The purpose of the wall is to slow down those attempting to cross so they can be apprehended. We will not have to increase patrols after the wall is built; as a matter of fact we might be able to decrease them somewhat depending on how impenetrable the wall proves to be.

The comparison here is one between a border which is secure, with entry only allowed at ports of entry, and one which is wide open and able to be crossed anywhere, not between one with a wall and one without a wall.

8. Where walls have been built, there was “no discernable impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens.”

What brand of idiot thinks that a broken wall will ever do any good? Of course it must be continuous! I swear I think these people would fence one side of a pasture and the complain how fences aren't any good because their livestock walked away in the other direction. That's a special kind of idiot, right there, let me tell you!

Israel has a continuous wall, and it has been documented as 99.9% effective. Every place along our border where a wall has been put up has shown to be more than 80% effective. If illegal aliens are crossing beyond the wall, it does not mean it does not work; it means we need more wall!

9. An unintended consequence is that a wall blocks farmworkers from EXITING when their invaluable seasonal work is done.

So, what is this mysterious force that is preventing farm workers form exiting at ports of entry? That's where they'll have to come in.

10. Trump’s $5 billion is a laughable drop in the bucket for what would ACTUALLY be needed.

As a businessman in construction/development, Donald Trump the citizen was well-known for bringing in construction projects ahead of schedule and under budget. All of the estimates from other sources are using government figures based on projects ran by people who had never overseen a construction project, with data analyzed by people who have never overseen a construction project.

Just because someone else is incapable of doing a thing, it does not follow that everyone is incapable of doing that thing.

11. According to MIT engineers, the wall would cost $31.2 billion.

Same argument as above.

Engineers do not build walls; engineers design walls.

All talking points are from the link in the OP.



Vicky Alvear Shecter needs to get her a little account on ATS if she wants a debate. Debating on Facebook is akin to driving a golf cart while watching NASCAR. I'll be right here if she ever gets up enough courage.

TheRedneck