Hitler and the Nazis were not Right-wing.

originally posted by: djz3ro


You managed to miss the crux of my post by pointing out where I'd gone wrong. The reason the Nazi's implimented socialist policies was because it was their version of Socialism, a right wing version of it. I may be wrong about Nationalism being purely Right-wing but I'm not wrong about the points you didn't address.

There is no right-wing form of socialism... That's an oxymoron... In all forms of socialism the state owns and controls the means of production. Hitler and the nazis controlled all businesses in Germany.

Right-wing = less government control.
left-wing = a centralized system with more government control.

originally posted by: djz3ro

Well the proof I have of them being right wing is that they were Hitler's policies.

That is no proof.. That's just denialism of the facts.

ROFLMAO... rriiight, who is to forget, "right-wingers give more importance to animals than to humans..."

"Right-wingers LOVE the liberalization of abortion...Right djz?... We all know "right-wingers" think it is more humane to murder the unborn if they could have some genetic disorder...

"Right-wingers" LOVE gun registration and gun confiscation... right djz?...

"Right-wingers" LOVE the nationalization of all trusts, and means of production...

There is no "right-wing take on left-wing ideas"... That's the stupidest argument anyone could come up with. In socialism, any form of it, there can be no "right-wing" ideas. The "right-wing" ideas, and policies are anathema to socialism... All branches of socialism, just like communism, are left-wing.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: djz3ro

Well the proof I have of them being right wing is that they were Hitler's policies.

That is no proof.. That's just denialism of the facts.

ROFLMAO... rriiight, who is to forget, "right-wingers give more importance to animals than to humans..."

"Right-wingers LOVE the liberalization of abortion...Right djz?... We all know "right-wingers" think it is more humane to murder the unborn if they could have some genetic disorder...

"Right-wingers" LOVE gun registration and gun confiscation... right djz?...

"Right-wingers" LOVE the nationalization of all trusts, and means of production...

There is no "right-wing take on left-wing ideas"... That's the stupidest argument anyone could come up with. In socialism, any form of it, there can be no "right-wing" ideas. The "right-wing" ideas, and policies are anathema to socialism... All branches of socialism, just like communism, are left-wing.

You claim right wing means less government control yet liberalization of abortion laws is left wing. Might want to think that through a bit.

You wrong anyway in that Nazi Germany did not liberalize abortion laws. They tightened laws (finally an outright ban for Arayan women) in the majority of cases. Where they did allow it was for Hitlers old favourite, racial purity.

originally posted by: username74

i asked you for a source.

The nazis murdered up to 15-31 million people. Many of the Jews that were murdered were German. Others were Austrians or from other areas/nations.

The nazis first implemented gun registration, and then they used the registration to disarm every person they deemed a threat to "National Socialism."

The nazis went home by home and confiscated not just rifles, they confiscated shotguns, small caliber weapons, and even knives.

Many of the Jews murdered by the nazis were veterans of WWI, not just in Germany but in Austria and surrounding regions/countries as well, and they were armed with the weapons they used in WWI. Others had shotguns, or other weapons for hunting as well as pistols. The nazis only made it easier for National Socialists to acquire firearms. You had to have a National Socialist id to be able to buy, or own a firearm in nazi Germany.

If only a small portion of the 15-31 million people murdered by the nazis had firearms, it would still be millions of people who were armed.

By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1 And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths.
...

www.hawaii.edu...

And like I was stating when I wrote about my uncle who was a socialist and one of the captains under the castros, but later he, and many other socialists turned against the castros, the same thing happened to many nazis, and other socialists.

...
When we think of Nazi killing, genocide immediately comes to mind, particularly that of "6,000,00 Jews." But they also murdered for reasons other than race or religion. For one, the Nazis slew those who opposed or hindered them, whether actually or potentially. This was why Hitler assassinated hundreds of top Nazi SA's (Sturmabteilung)4 in June and July 1934, who under Ernst Rohm were becoming a strong competitor to the SS (Schutzstaffel); or executed perhaps 5,000 Germans after the 1944 plot on his life and attempted coup d'etat. Indeed, it is why critics, pacifists, conscientious objectors, campus rebels, dissidents, and others throughout the twelve-year history of the regime in Germany, were executed, disappeared, or slowly died in concentration camps. The Nazis thus killed some 288,000 Germans, not counting Jews, homosexuals, and those forcibly "euthanized." If these are included, then the Nazis murdered at least 498,000 Germans, probably 762,000. As shown in table 1.2, this was one out of every hundred Germans.
...

www.hawaii.edu...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: djz3ro

Well the proof I have of them being right wing is that they were Hitler's policies.

That is no proof.. That's just denialism of the facts.

ROFLMAO... rriiight, who is to forget, "right-wingers give more importance to animals than to humans..."

"Right-wingers LOVE the liberalization of abortion...Right djz?... We all know "right-wingers" think it is more humane to murder the unborn if they could have some genetic disorder...

"Right-wingers" LOVE gun registration and gun confiscation... right djz?...

"Right-wingers" LOVE the nationalization of all trusts, and means of production...

There is no "right-wing take on left-wing ideas"... That's the stupidest argument anyone could come up with. In socialism, any form of it, there can be no "right-wing" ideas. The "right-wing" ideas, and policies are anathema to socialism... All branches of socialism, just like communism, are left-wing.

More factual errors.

'Left wingers' so not put the rights of animals above humans.

Nazi government didn't nationalize the means of production.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

You claim right wing means less government control yet liberalization of abortion laws is left wing. Might want to think that through a bit.

You wrong anyway in that Nazi Germany did not liberalize abortion laws. They tightened laws (finally an outright ban for Arayan women) in the majority of cases. Where they did allow it was for Hitlers old favourite, racial purity.

I know that "liberalization of abortion" is left-wing... I was being "sarcastic..."

Before the nazis' "liberalized abortion" it was illegal to have abortions. Under nazi rule if women, even "Aryans", could prove that a child could have a degenerative disorder, or "could" be infirm, then the women could have abortions. The penalty for abortions, using other excuses, was lessened by the nazis from a felony to a misdemeanor.

...
Berlin, emerged suddenly as the most culturally innovative of all the capital cities of Europe, second only to Paris.xx William Shirer speaks of most Germans during this period as being democratic, liberal, or even pacifist.xxi
...

www.uffl.org...

William L. Shirer
William Lawrence Shirer was an American journalist and war correspondent. He wrote The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a history of Nazi Germany that has been read by many and cited in scholarly works for more than 50 years.
...

en.wikipedia.org...




In case you didn't know Margaret Sanger, the idol of the left on abortion, was linked to Dr. Ernst Rudin, who was Adolf Hitler's director of genetic sterilization and founded the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene/aka Germany's racial purity program.

...
The Birth Control Review frequently highlighted the mission of its parent organization: “The American Birth Control League. Its Aim: To promote eugenic birth selection throughout the United States so that there may be more well‑born and fewer ill‑born children ― a stronger, healthier and more intelligent race.”[iii] Sanger neatly summarized the intimate relationship between the eugenics and birth control movements:

Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control, the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit. … Birth control of itself, by freeing the reproductive instinct from its present chains, will make a better race … Eugenics without birth control seems to us a house built upon the sands. It is at the mercy of the rising stream of the unfit.[iv]
..

www.hli.org...

The above was written by Sanger "[vii] Margaret Sanger. “Birth Control and Women’s Health.” Birth Control Review, Volume I, Number 12 (December 1917), page 7."

It's not right vs left. We are talking about extreme authoritarianism, which is bad in any form. Left/right is just an arbitrary division. In Hitler's time there was no right or left wing. The guy was insane.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

More factual errors.

'Left wingers' so not put the rights of animals above humans.

Nazi government didn't nationalize the means of production.

You are wrong in both accounts... Even in this website you will find threads about "the horrid conditions in which chickens, cows ect live in," yet those same people think it is alright to kill the unborn (human) and use their body parts for research...

...
To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.

Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed., “First Interview with Hitler, 4 May 1931,” Secret Conversations with Hitler: The Two Newly-Discovered 1931 Interviews, New York: John Day Co., 1971, pp. 31-33. Also published under the title Unmasked: Two Confidential Interviews with Hitler in 1931 , published by Chatto & Windus in 1971

www.reddit.com...

Yes the Germans, and Hitler did control the means of production...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

More factual errors.

'Left wingers' so not put the rights of animals above humans.

Nazi government didn't nationalize the means of production.

You are wrong in both accounts... Even in this website you will find threads about "the horrid conditions in which chickens, cows ect live in," yet those same people think it is alright to kill the unborn (human) and use their body parts for research...

...
To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.

Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed., “First Interview with Hitler, 4 May 1931,” Secret Conversations with Hitler: The Two Newly-Discovered 1931 Interviews, New York: John Day Co., 1971, pp. 31-33. Also published under the title Unmasked: Two Confidential Interviews with Hitler in 1931 , published by Chatto & Windus in 1971

www.reddit.com...

Yes the Germans, and Hitler did control the means of production...

Being pro choice is not the same as putting lives of animals above humans.

Can you show where the they actually did nationalize the means of production? As opposed to selective quoting from an unverified interview'

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

You claim right wing means less government control yet liberalization of abortion laws is left wing. Might want to think that through a bit.

You wrong anyway in that Nazi Germany did not liberalize abortion laws. They tightened laws (finally an outright ban for Arayan women) in the majority of cases. Where they did allow it was for Hitlers old favourite, racial purity.

I know that "liberalization of abortion" is left-wing... I was being "sarcastic..."

Before the nazis' "liberalized abortion" it was illegal to have abortions. Under nazi rule if women, even "Aryans", could prove that a child could have a degenerative disorder, or "could" be infirm, then the women could have abortions. The penalty for abortions, using other excuses, was lessened by the nazis from a felony to a misdemeanor.

...
Berlin, emerged suddenly as the most culturally innovative of all the capital cities of Europe, second only to Paris.xx William Shirer speaks of most Germans during this period as being democratic, liberal, or even pacifist.xxi
...

www.uffl.org...

William L. Shirer
William Lawrence Shirer was an American journalist and war correspondent. He wrote The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a history of Nazi Germany that has been read by many and cited in scholarly works for more than 50 years.
...

en.wikipedia.org...




In case you didn't know Margaret Sanger, the idol of the left on abortion, was linked to Dr. Ernst Rudin, who was Adolf Hitler's director of genetic sterilization and founded the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene/aka Germany's racial purity program.

...
The Birth Control Review frequently highlighted the mission of its parent organization: “The American Birth Control League. Its Aim: To promote eugenic birth selection throughout the United States so that there may be more well‑born and fewer ill‑born children ― a stronger, healthier and more intelligent race.”[iii] Sanger neatly summarized the intimate relationship between the eugenics and birth control movements:

Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control, the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit. … Birth control of itself, by freeing the reproductive instinct from its present chains, will make a better race … Eugenics without birth control seems to us a house built upon the sands. It is at the mercy of the rising stream of the unfit.[iv]
..

www.hli.org...

The above was written by Sanger "[vii] Margaret Sanger. “Birth Control and Women’s Health.” Birth Control Review, Volume I, Number 12 (December 1917), page 7."

I know you were trying to be sarcastic. You were also contradicting yourself if you think being anti abortion is less government control.

You are also wrong on history as the process of legalisation of abortion on the Weimar republic was reversed under the Nazis was reversed with an out right ban for Aryan women except on grounds of racial purity.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot

You claim right wing means less government control yet liberalization of abortion laws is left wing. Might want to think that through a bit.

You wrong anyway in that Nazi Germany did not liberalize abortion laws. They tightened laws (finally an outright ban for Arayan women) in the majority of cases. Where they did allow it was for Hitlers old favourite, racial purity.

I know that "liberalization of abortion" is left-wing... I was being "sarcastic..."

Before the nazis' "liberalized abortion" it was illegal to have abortions. Under nazi rule if women, even "Aryans", could prove that a child could have a degenerative disorder, or "could" be infirm, then the women could have abortions. The penalty for abortions, using other excuses, was lessened by the nazis from a felony to a misdemeanor.

...
Berlin, emerged suddenly as the most culturally innovative of all the capital cities of Europe, second only to Paris.xx William Shirer speaks of most Germans during this period as being democratic, liberal, or even pacifist.xxi
...

www.uffl.org...

William L. Shirer
William Lawrence Shirer was an American journalist and war correspondent. He wrote The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a history of Nazi Germany that has been read by many and cited in scholarly works for more than 50 years.
...

en.wikipedia.org...




In case you didn't know Margaret Sanger, the idol of the left on abortion, was linked to Dr. Ernst Rudin, who was Adolf Hitler's director of genetic sterilization and founded the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene/aka Germany's racial purity program.

...
The Birth Control Review frequently highlighted the mission of its parent organization: “The American Birth Control League. Its Aim: To promote eugenic birth selection throughout the United States so that there may be more well‑born and fewer ill‑born children ― a stronger, healthier and more intelligent race.”[iii] Sanger neatly summarized the intimate relationship between the eugenics and birth control movements:

Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed, they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control, the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit. … Birth control of itself, by freeing the reproductive instinct from its present chains, will make a better race … Eugenics without birth control seems to us a house built upon the sands. It is at the mercy of the rising stream of the unfit.[iv]
..

www.hli.org...

The above was written by Sanger "[vii] Margaret Sanger. “Birth Control and Women’s Health.” Birth Control Review, Volume I, Number 12 (December 1917), page 7."

Eugenics was hugely popular amongst both the Left and Right in the early part of last century.

Unless you think Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt were socialists?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

hey, your source. R.J. Rummel

"Rummel was a strong supporter of spreading liberal democracy, although he did not support invading another country solely to replace a dictatorship.[26] Rummel talked about the "miracle" of liberty and peace, and was an outspoken critic of communism. However, he also criticized right-wing dictatorships and the democides that occurred under colonialism.

He strongly supported the War on Terror and the Iraq War initiated by the George W. Bush administration. He argued for an intergovernmental organization of all democracies outside of the United Nations to deal with issues about which the UN cannot or will not act, but particularly to further the promotion of peace, human security, human rights, and democracy—an Alliance of Democracies"

en.wikipedia.org...

this is why everyones arguing with you.
you are quoting 1930s political views.
this is a guy who is basically a political philosopher rather than a historian
you are using a liberal globalist as your source.
read some books, dude.

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

An excellent OP... I've fought this battle before with liberal family members.

It makes them so mad it's like I took their slaves from them again...

S&F!

I know this is going back a ways, but this this is my candidate for post of the year.

No the NAZI weren't "right wing". You are absolutely right.

They were a socialist, anti freedom party, that like many American democrats today believe, if we just can get absolute control, things would be so much "orderly".

The NAZI'S did everything they claimed to be "fighting" against. I think it funny how the evil minds (of the "modern" Democrats) do not understand how they have become the very thing/things they claim to be against. It is very obvious the "education" they have been "socially" provided, did not include a reading of our U.S. C.O.T.U.S.
All things evil are what they cling to.
Fear, doubt, lack of morals,..etc.

To them? Christian's are the new Jew.

As Samuel Clemens said,.. "History does not repeat itself. But it does rhyme".

They believe "law" makes/gives "morals". If they can "democratically" convince enough "majority" they get a utopian nation. Just like Hitler thought.
They obviously do not understand that a majority of people just want to be left alone and not bothered by anyone, or push their beliefs on anyone.
But evil is always present.
The sad fact is? Socialist do not understand that socialism, doesn't work in a Republic, ruled by real "law" with freedom being the priority.

originally posted by: murphy22

The NAZI'S did everything they claimed to be "fighting" against. I think it funny how the evil minds (of the "modern" Democrats) do not understand how they have become the very thing/things they claim to be against.

While I wouldn't compare the Democrats to the Nazis, this is absolutely true. Liberals used to be the ones who wanted freedom, for the government to leave you alone, openness and for minority views to be respected. There are still liberals like that, but the American left today is largely about forcing their views on everyone else, often with government intervention. That's not a liberal platform. It amazes me how many people subscribe to that and describe themselves as liberals.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

You claim right wing means less government control yet liberalization of abortion laws is left wing. Might want to think that through a bit.

I see what you were trying to get at now. But here is the thing. In nations like the U.S. the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed for everyone. A human fetus is another human life it isn't part of a woman's body. I have already shown how the belief in "abortion" came from Sanger who was linked to the nazis, and she herself was a racist evil woman, who brainwashed the left worldwide to believe that "murdering their unborn children gives women more power..."

originally posted by: ScepticScot

Eugenics was hugely popular amongst both the Left and Right in the early part of last century.

Unless you think Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt were socialists?

Winston Churchil himself was a racist because of his aristocratic upbringing. He believed in eugenics, but I have never read anything about him being in favor of abortion. Yes, some people like Churchill had ideas from both the left, and right. Those people are an exception to the rule.

However, in the U.S. with the "New Deal" it changed, and several people considered from the right became "progressives." Today such people in the U.S. are called "RINO" (Republican In Name Only) because they tend to vote left-wing and right-wing policies. These people, all progressives, are also globalists, which is against right-wing ideas like sovereignty.

But neither eugenics, nor abortion are "right-wing ideas." Otherwise the western world wouldn't have needed a racist national socialist like Margaret Sangers, and other "socialists" to convince them on "abortion."

a reply to: murphy22

As a matter of fact, which parties are the ones who always complain about "Israel being an evil country who are always attacking the good people of Palestine and taking their lands for no motive"?... It isn't the right, of that you can be sure. It is the left who to this day show hatred for Israel, and favor a terrorist state, which is no state because "Palestinians" never agreed to allow Israel to exist as part of a deal which would have made possible for Palestine to exist as a nation. As if they didn't have over 90% of the Middle East under Muslim control already.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How to win this debate with leftists:

Far right is theocracy, right?

Far left is communism, right?

How does nazism (national socialists) come closer to theocracy than communism??? It doesn't. Game over.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

I know you were trying to be sarcastic. You were also contradicting yourself if you think being anti abortion is less government control.

You are contradicting yourself if you think that "abortion" is a right-wing idea. Right-wing means less government control, but it also guarantees life to those born in U.S. soil. Abortion denies the right to life. Perhaps you also think that "right-wing" means allowing murder to occur, or criminals to run free... Less government control doesn't mean no laws...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
You are also wrong on history as the process of legalisation of abortion on the Weimar republic was reversed under the Nazis was reversed with an out right ban for Aryan women except on grounds of racial purity.

Wrong, before the nazis abortion was banned. Section 218 of the German Constitution made it a penal crime to have an abortion. At the time of the Weimar Republic in 1926 it was because of a court decision that allowed abortion only when the life of the mother was in great danger. The nazis liberalized abortion and allowed women, including minorities, to use abortion. "Aryan" women could have an abortion if they could prove the child could be born with a genetic disorder. Before the nazis this was not allowed at all.