No Part of the World

a reply to: chr0naut

I doubt that. It was a very bloodthirsty time back then. They most likely would think what a bunch of soft whiners. With all our human rights and freedoms, they had gladiators which more often than not got killed for the amusement of the populus.
They certainly would think we're crazy but not for the reasons you think.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Same position every unsaved liberal that has gone to hell before you holds. No big deal to me, for you know not the scriptures but rather shred them to make your own righteousness important.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Same position every unsaved liberal that has gone to hell before you holds. No big deal to me, for you know not the scriptures but rather shred them to make your own righteousness important.

That's pathetic, you just used your opinion, you could have used KJV scripture but I bet you don't know it

Great to blab on about what you believe, funny you can't back it up

Think Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal as well.

a reply to: Peeple

It is a bloodthirsty time today, no difference only more lazy unsaved, unemployed, snowflakes ripe for the reaper. Every advancement of men has never led no where except to hospital beds and grave yards. the brightest minds of every generation since the Beginning have done nothing but add to the death toll.

a reply to: Raggedyman

No need you couldn't find it if it stared you in the face. My point stand but if you need to know your problem is you have been deceived of men with Philosophy as is many an unsaved but religious Atheist and Agnostic.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Eph 5:6-7 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Col 2:4 ¶ And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Same position every unsaved liberal that has gone to hell before you holds. No big deal to me, for you know not the scriptures but rather shred them to make your own righteousness important.

Are you of the belief anyone who dies Liberal will go to hell?

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Same position every unsaved liberal that has gone to hell before you holds. No big deal to me, for you know not the scriptures but rather shred them to make your own righteousness important.

Are you of the belief anyone who dies Liberal will go to hell?

For CJ Jesus doesn't save, reading the KJV and following Jewish law is the only way to repentance

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

No need you couldn't find it if it stared you in the face. My point stand but if you need to know your problem is you have been deceived of men with Philosophy as is many an unsaved but religious Atheist and Agnostic.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Eph 5:6-7 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Col 2:4 ¶ And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

I am not denying hell and punishment, just eternal hell for humans

How about you quote where I am wrong using your choice of bible

Or are you a little rusty in the word of God
Or I could say, you havnt a clue what you believe, just listen to someone else tell you what to believe and accept it. No comprehension of scripture at all

As much as I dislike atheist fundamentalists, I despise Christian fundamentalists who are biblically ignorant more

You wouldn't know a bible from a tree branch 🤗

a reply to: chr0naut

Text Why is good, good and evil, evil?

Very good thought chrOnaut. One or two little words opens up my mind with that thought. Thanks for being here.

a reply to: Raggedyman

a reply to: ChesterJohn Where do you get eternal hell for humanity from Even in the scripture you quoted the word is " destroy" Not torture Read what " destroy" means

It can be assumed

Revelation_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

I assume there is but one lake of fire.

Revelation_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

By this we can assume that in order to be tormented one would have to have consciousness. Those who are in hell at the White Throne Judgment will be cast into the same lake of fire as the devil, beast, and false prophet have been cast. All who have been cast into the lake of fire will have consciousness and torment forever. This includes "hell".

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

According to KJV scripture, Chester is correct in that hell is permanent and those in hell are tormented forever.

a reply to: Seede

You might want to read that all again

Hells fires are eternal, agreed, that's written clearly
Satan and the demons are eternal, agreed, written

Humanity ate from the tree of knowledge but were kept away from the tree of life, back in Genesis

So now what you have to do is find in the bible where non Christians have eternal life

So yes, those who don't accept Jesus will face hell but nowhere does it say eternal punishment for mankind in hell

Hell is clearly eternal, demons yes eternal hell, but humanity only suffer for a finite time before being destroyed for eternity
Prove it with scripture, not assumptions

a reply to: Raggedyman

Here is one set of verses that speaks of those men (who are unsaved) who took the mark of the beast, and all the unsaved dead from Genesis to Revelation 20 whose names are in the book of life. They are sent to the lake of fire where eternal torments smoke ariseth before God for all ever and ever (a term for eternity).

Rev 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

What makes you think that unsaved me are not cast into the lake of fire and tormented forever with the Satan, the beast and the false prophet? The scriptures are quite clear that those men who took the mark and those men whose name are not written in the book of life go into the lake of fire and the smoke of their torment rises before God forever. The books cover all unsaved dead from the beginning to the end of the millennial kingdom. I told you you knew not the scriptures and yet you claim I don't.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Can you show me where humanity have eternal souls

Yes the smoke of torment, of hell is eternal, you are implying and implying with one single scripture
Pretty substandard CJ

That's a whole lot of eternal hell you are loading on one single scripture
Try again

Eternal damnation is for ever separated from God, eternal hell is for eternal beings,M humans are not eternal as ai can tell

a reply to: Raggedyman

Are not those scriptures showing that unsaved are tormented through eternity enough to show you that they are eternal beings?

BTW that is known as eternal death it is the opposite of eternal life. So if eternal life is real then eternal death is just as ral, or Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: . Do you not understand what the terms "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever means or is? Clearly a child with a 6th grade understanding knows that one smoke could not rise up forever if he is not there being burned forever, it was clear hat the rich man said concerning his person being in a torment of fire after he had died, if he was dead why is in a flame of fire? Are you saying you cannot see that this man was alive after death and that he was in a flame of fire? If there is no life after death then you are calling Jesus Christ a liar, does not that frighten you? Why would the rich man be concerned about the souls of his brethren if there was no eternal life after death for the unsaved?

Luke 16:23-31 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Is not the verse understandable to you

Eccl 12:5 . . . because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: .

Can you not see that while the man goes to his long home, the mourners are in the streets. He is in his long home once he dies as seen in Luke 16. Are you saying you do not know what it means for "man goeth to his long home? This is not a long house but a place to stay for a long time, forever and ever maybe?

So what you are looking for in the Bible is a verse that verifies that a man soul is eternal even if he is not saved. Ask yourself this, "why would God send his only begotten on, Jesus Christ to die for our sins if man does not have eternal life in hell to begin with? I showed you that the men whose mane is not written in the book of life go to the Lake of fire, the same place where the smoke of their torments ascendeth forever and ever is, yet you still cannot see that a man has an eternal soul that can be punished. Look again at what Jesus Christ says about a person under law might want to consider doing as not to go to hell, which we have showed it is eternal and you have agreed that Satan and his angles will go there and be punished for all eternity.

Matt 9:43 . . . than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Never quenched, do you not understand what "never quenched" means? It means that the fire will be forever burning.

I think the scriptures is abundantly clear that a man, including you, has a life that goes on for all eternity but where is your long home going to be? Heaven or Hell?

Stop looking for something that is already very clear in scriptures. the only reason you are playing this game is to justify your wicked deeds you practice now, so you can deceive yourself and others that there is not eternity for a sinner. At least you know you are a sinner.

a reply to: Raggedyman

TextSo now what you have to do is find in the bible where non Christians have eternal life

The Apostle Matthew wrote that Jesus said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will sit in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew_8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

I don't know if there are several kingdoms of heaven and must assume that only one kingdom of heaven exists for all humans. If I am correct then these three men [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob] were not Christians nor ever heard of Jesus but did enter the kingdom of the Christ Jesus. How did/will they enter the kingdom of heaven is not specifically told in the NT but tradition tells us that Jesus presented Himself to those in Sheol upon His death and those that accepted Jesus as the Christ were resurrected into their new celestial body and allowed into the kingdom of everlasting life. Those spirits that did not accept Him as the Christ were left in the chambers or pits of hell in Sheol.

This is the first of the resurrected human spirits. The kingdom of heaven was not given till the blood covenant of the Christ was fulfilled. According to the author of Revelation there are two more gatherings yet to come. They are called resurrections by the author of Revelation. Tradition tells us that as each Christian dies [today] their judgment is immediate and reward or punishment is determined immediately. According to some interpretations, a dead human today is either in hell [Sheol] or the kingdom of the Christ Jesus and in a consciousness.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Raggedyman

Are not those scriptures showing that unsaved are tormented through eternity enough to show you that they are eternal beings?

BTW that is known as eternal death it is the opposite of eternal life. So if eternal life is real then eternal death is just as ral, or Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: . Do you not understand what the terms "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever means or is? Clearly a child with a 6th grade understanding knows that one smoke could not rise up forever if he is not there being burned forever, it was clear hat the rich man said concerning his person being in a torment of fire after he had died, if he was dead why is in a flame of fire? Are you saying you cannot see that this man was alive after death and that he was in a flame of fire? If there is no life after death then you are calling Jesus Christ a liar, does not that frighten you? Why would the rich man be concerned about the souls of his brethren if there was no eternal life after death for the unsaved?

Luke 16:23-31 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Is not the verse understandable to you

Eccl 12:5 . . . because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: .

Can you not see that while the man goes to his long home, the mourners are in the streets. He is in his long home once he dies as seen in Luke 16. Are you saying you do not know what it means for "man goeth to his long home? This is not a long house but a place to stay for a long time, forever and ever maybe?

So what you are looking for in the Bible is a verse that verifies that a man soul is eternal even if he is not saved. Ask yourself this, "why would God send his only begotten on, Jesus Christ to die for our sins if man does not have eternal life in hell to begin with? I showed you that the men whose mane is not written in the book of life go to the Lake of fire, the same place where the smoke of their torments ascendeth forever and ever is, yet you still cannot see that a man has an eternal soul that can be punished. Look again at what Jesus Christ says about a person under law might want to consider doing as not to go to hell, which we have showed it is eternal and you have agreed that Satan and his angles will go there and be punished for all eternity.

Matt 9:43 . . . than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Never quenched, do you not understand what "never quenched" means? It means that the fire will be forever burning.

I think the scriptures is abundantly clear that a man, including you, has a life that goes on for all eternity but where is your long home going to be? Heaven or Hell?

Stop looking for something that is already very clear in scriptures. the only reason you are playing this game is to justify your wicked deeds you practice now, so you can deceive yourself and others that there is not eternity for a sinner. At least you know you are a sinner.

CJ, you rant and moan

You will have to do a LOT better than that

You cant comprehend english, KJV or other
Nor Gods word

Matt 9:43 . . . than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

It is very clear, the fire is eternal, doesn't say people are eternal, whats wrong with your comprehension skills

I am not talking about hell being eternal I am talking people being eternal
In Christ we are eternal, where does it say outside Christ humans are eternal.

The sadducees didnt believe in an afterlife at all
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Dan. 12:2). That could mean everlasting NOTHING, destruction, gone, not even a memory for God

See CJ, you are making a statement, you have to prove it.
I am not sure, I think that hell is eternal for spirit being only, not humanity

You have offered nothing valid at all to make me think you even know what youre talking about never mind establish anything valid

a reply to: Seede

Yes I agree, humanity does suffer in hell, but forever
I dont read that

a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes I agree, humanity does suffer in hell, but forever I dont read that

Dead Sea Scroll - 1Q Isaiah
Language: Hebrew
Date: About 125 B.C.[1]
Location: Qumran Cave 1

Isaiah 66:24
24 “They will go out, and look at the dead bodies of the men who have transgressed against me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

In this scroll it tells me that the unsaved people [men] will be shown as dead bodies who transgressed the Creator God.
This shows that the dead body of that condemned spirit is forever shown as a corpse or carcase and that its rotting flesh which produces this worm will be shown as a determent to all who live outside of New Jerusalem. This fire will not be put out and the worm will not die. What is meant by their worm shall not die? The cause of this second death is shown forever by this image. This image of the condemned spirit will be shown forever.

I believe here is where the opinions are most voiced. Does the spirit face annihilation [Lack of consciousness] or are they in a conscious state in the lake of fire?

Revelation_14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

In order to not have rest one would have to be conscious would he not?

But is that eternal torment?

Revelation_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I believe that the answer is very plain. There is a domain where the unsaved spirits are given in consciousness. this could be a world of altogether different substance than ever imagined and it could be a domain of bodiless spirits which we could never understand. But from these scriptures in the NT it does seem to say that the second death is permanent torment [not torture as some suppose] and applies to all that do not qualify for the kingdom of heaven. Many people are confused as to believe the Creator tortures people forever. That is not scriptural at all.

The Inquisition.

a reply to: Seede

I am sorry, your beliefs clash with what i understand

In Revelation 20 they are talking
"the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Doesnt say humans are eternal, the beast and false prophet doesnt represent humanity

Revelation 14, the word is "Rest", might want to study rest in context.
Translating greek/hebrew to english is tricky
Rest in Jesus

Irrespective, greater minds than ours have argued this for millennia, we are not offering anything of value.
I once believed in eternal hell, not sure anymore