Trump confirms US to pull out of nuclear treaty with Russia

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If Trump does anything you will think he's working with Putin's Russia.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Its a first stage rocket, second stage is American.

I do stand corrected.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Russia keeps working on a missile that violates the treaty. The US has used diplomacy several times and Trump has warned Russia to stop. Russia refused. There is a wealth of information about diplomatic efforts that were made, I have no idea how you missed it other than you did not look.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Do you really think the number of warheads really matters ? Under the existing protocols of MAD or Mutually Assured Destruction both sides fire all they have after a launch from the other side. One is all it takes as far as I am concerned, especially with the multiple warheads on one rocket they have now. The US has consistently maintained our nuclear capabilities while Russia did go through a period that they did not spend as much militarily, so nuclear capabilities may not be the same, but again I doubt it really matters.

I hope and do believe this action by Trump will initially be vilified by not only Putin but by the usual host of haters. I think Trump will use this as an opportunity to build a bridge between our current differences, call for new talks and find enough cooperation between us that will lead to a new modern updated treaty between us. No better way to spark new diplomacy other than a good crisis.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

If Trump does anything you will think he's working with Putin's Russia.

Not really I have said several times that I am kind of holding off on saying he is or is not compromised by the Russians until the outcome of the investigations because I believe the whole thing has just became so convoluted I can't really form a balanced opinion on it. So I hope that after the investigation is concluded it would leave some clarity....that however is a different topic.

All I was doing was pointing out that there is a line of thinking one can take where this is a distant possibility.

originally posted by: ausername

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

He never ceases to amaze.

Obviously he's colluding with the Russians again.

More likely serving his M.I.C masters again.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Allaroundyou

The US often uses Russian rockets to get things into space. We also use Japanese rockets, European rockets, and rockets from the private industry. US payloads are launched into space regularly and spread around ranging from small to large. Same with satellites and other payloads from many nations beibg launched by our rockets.

What we dont do is put rocket engines from other nations into our own designs.

What do you mean by our own designs? A rocket engine is just an engine. They are fairly simple to make but the closed circuit design the the Russians made AKA the newer RD-180 is small and much more efficient than our previous engines. Our satellites being launch on our soil for reconnaissance and air force needs are launched mostly using this engine. SpaceX I believe is the only exception. Oh and also Sierra Nevada I believe also launch’s air force satellites.

:EDIT: it’s ok man...I play a lot of Kerbal Space Program and constantly look up this kinda thing.

a reply to: ausername

Trump could Nuke Moscow and they will twist it into Trump was getting rid of Putin's political foes.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Russia keeps working on a missile that violates the treaty. The US has used diplomacy several times and Trump has warned Russia to stop. Russia refused. There is a wealth of information about diplomatic efforts that were made, I have no idea how you missed it other than you did not look.

Yeah there is a lot of news that comes out and I don't keep up with it all because, shocker, I do have other interests and hobbies.

But please provide some links I would like to read more about the diplomatic efforts of the trump administration to resolve this without ripping up the treaty.

Here is an article from about a week ago.

“It is time now for Russia to come to the table and stop the violations,” U.S. Ambassador Kay Bailey Hutchison told reporters in Brussels, on the eve of a meeting between U.S. Defence Secretary Jim Mattis and his NATO counterparts.

Hutchison was referring to what the U.S. says are violations of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF), which bans medium-range missiles capable of hitting Europe or Alaska. The U.S. and Russia celebrated its 30th anniversary in Geneva in 2017.

nationalpost.com...

Russia simply ignored all the requests.

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Do you really think the number of warheads really matters ? Under the existing protocols of MAD or Mutually Assured Destruction both sides fire all they have after a launch from the other side. One is all it takes as far as I am concerned, especially with the multiple warheads on one rocket they have now. The US has consistently maintained our nuclear capabilities while Russia did go through a period that they did not spend as much militarily, so nuclear capabilities may not be the same, but again I doubt it really matters.

I hope and do believe this action by Trump will initially be vilified by not only Putin but by the usual host of haters. I think Trump will use this as an opportunity to build a bridge between our current differences, call for new talks and find enough cooperation between us that will lead to a new modern updated treaty between us. No better way to spark new diplomacy other than a good crisis.

I certainly hope that his decision for doing this is used as a way to bring a better deal to the table. I guess we shall wait and see.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

interesting reading thanks for the link.

I still just don't think pulling out of it is the right thing to do, I would hope though that this move brings Russia to the table and the issue is resolved but I doubt it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Trump is really not a very big fan of treaties or agreements, he really does have a need to be king of the sandbox.

Dangerous times indeed.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's been 4 years of asking Russia to stop. Unlike Obama, Trump doesn't keep asking. He puts you on notice, and then he acts.

We have 2 scenarios.
Scenario one, Russia ignores us and we stick to the treaty and it's worthless and only hurts America.
Scenario two, we let Russia know if they refuse to follow it then we will likewise delve into these techs.

Either scenario Russia is doing it. Scenario two puts Russia in the situation where now they have a reason to talk.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Yes Trump should stick to the treaty Russia ignores. Makes total sense. It worked so well for Obama right? Obama in 2014 said Russia was breaking the treaty and did nothing and now Russia has the actual missile.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Russia is not the Soviet union anymore. They are a county with a lesser ranked economy than Canada.

Despite their propaganda their actual capabilities have been way over hyped.

They don't want war anymore than we do. But they're desperate, Putin would love to be able to rebuild a version of the former Soviet union but that's never going to happen. They are never going to play by the rules of the west or honor any treaties. Espionage, cyberwarfare, and meddling in enemy nations politics is their game for now.

Meh

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Allaroundyou

We do not use Russian engines in our rockets.

U.S. defense contractors use cheap Russian engines to launch American military rockets into space. At least they do for NASA launches. I doubt they have anything to do with our nuclear missiles.

a reply to: ausername

Exactly. The only way to get them back on board is to rip up the treaty. Let them know this will not be a 1 party treaty, it will be both parties or neither.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

My guess is neither country is living up to the treaty. Basically, it isn't worth the paper it is written on and hasn't been for a long time. We only see what they let us see, or what we can figure on our own.

The world will never have any real hope as long as humans possess nukes.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Trump is really not a very big fan of treaties or agreements, he really does have a need to be king of the sandbox.

Dangerous times indeed.

Yeah thats kind of the problem, he just seems to run around ripping up the stuff he doesn't like and it feels like a lot of the time its down without much consideration to the consequences.

I am just kind of hoping that in a couple of years someone will be sitting in the white house to repair the damage.