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originally posted by: Lab4Us
originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
So we shouldnt stand up for people we dont know?
Even when we see a wrong being made?
We should just sit down and shut up huh?
I dont think Niemöller would agree with you:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Sorry, going to have to kindly tell you youre wrong...........so so wrong........
People don’t seem to understand what’s being defended is principles you believe in, regardless of which side you’re on, or even if you think each side is right in some areas and wrong in others. Names and identities are irrelevant and everything is not black and white - there’s lots of grey.
What I think people really need to stop doing, like the OP has done, is demand that others think and act just like them. That is EXACTLY what’s wrong with the US right now! People seem to think if you don’t think and act just like them, you’re some kind of cancer.
originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
So we shouldnt stand up for people we dont know?
Even when we see a wrong being made?
We should just sit down and shut up huh?
I dont think Niemöller would agree with you:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Sorry, going to have to kindly tell you youre wrong...........so so wrong........
originally posted by: SRPrime
originally posted by: Lab4Us
originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
So we shouldnt stand up for people we dont know?
Even when we see a wrong being made?
We should just sit down and shut up huh?
I dont think Niemöller would agree with you:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Sorry, going to have to kindly tell you youre wrong...........so so wrong........
People don’t seem to understand what’s being defended is principles you believe in, regardless of which side you’re on, or even if you think each side is right in some areas and wrong in others. Names and identities are irrelevant and everything is not black and white - there’s lots of grey.
What I think people really need to stop doing, like the OP has done, is demand that others think and act just like them. That is EXACTLY what’s wrong with the US right now! People seem to think if you don’t think and act just like them, you’re some kind of cancer.
That's a spectrum though; some beliefs are cancer, most are not. Where do you draw the line? I personally believe nobody should have the right to own slaves, and anybody who fights for that right is a cancer. It's about reasonably managing expectations against the argument. When you start defending accusers without proof, you've LOST reason.
This entire debate is Reason vs Unreason. Those who support an accuser with no corroboration or empirical, or EVEN circumstantial evidence are being unreasonable, since they're approaching a situation not based on collectible information, but based on emotion and bias solely.
If you support ford, you're characterizing Kav based upon NO BASE, and unreasonable emotion appeal. This is a logical fallacy and is objectively wrong.
I don't like Kav, but FFS, you can't just make up stuff about people you don't like to impair their career. It's open an shut; one side of the argument is right and the other side is wrong, and the side that is wrong, is the side who committed to the logical fallacy.
I must add here; that it doesn't matter if Kav did it or not. If Kav did it, and there is no proof, you cannot know he did it. If he did it, and you find proof, you find justice.
That's how it works.
In this regard I don't need to attack Ford and so I won't, but also in this regard, one must defend Kav or we're setting a precedent that you're guilty until proven innocent, which is absolutely crazy as you cannot prove a negative. You can't prove that every person couldn't have done something, you CAN prove that a specific person did something, however. And in the event that you cannot, you have to side with reason despite what you BELIEVE.
I.E. People believe O.J. did it, even if I believed that and I was on a jury, I'd have to acquit because there was way too much reasonable doubt. They couldn't prove O.J. did it, despite me feeling like he did. If O.J. didn't do it, the guilty party would have remained at large anyway. People seem to care more about making sure SOMEONE pays, and careless if it's the right someone.