What comes after Heaven or Hell

originally posted by: Seede
Those Chinese people who reject the God of Abram are not God's children.

Satan doesn't create human. God does. The image of God applies to everyone, including Caine. God doesn't abandon anyone.

originally posted by: Seede They are Satan's children according to the NT apostles.

You can't judge anyone. Leave it to God to decide.

originally posted by: Seede
The only way one can become a child of the God of Abram is to do what the God of Abram has instructed all people to do.

And here's the problem. What instruction? Clearly Moses laws doesn't apply to Christian. Who bear Jesus witness in the time of Gautama Buddha. No one. So how do you justify this? Remember, God is justice, not a blind minded jealous God.

originally posted by: Seede
Firstly one must love Him unconditionally. No bargaining or bribes allowed. The choice is the same for everyone.

How do you love Him unconditionally, when you can't even understand, He is who He is? Christian themselves are still having problem with the mystery of trinity God, remember?

Love is subjective. But then again only God can tell who actually love him and for what reason. So it's best we don't judge people unless we are given the authority to do so.

originally posted by: Seede
According to both Isaiah and apostle John the first job in their afterlife with the God of Abram will be to raise the children who were not given the chance for eternal life.

Isaiah and John are Hebrews meant to teach the Hebrews, God's firstborn. It's the responsibility every Jews should know that they are not born by faith but by blood convenant.

You can't apply tanakh or Torah to gentiles.

We must go to heaven because we are already in hell .

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: EasternShadow

An Abramaic God is a God of judgment and NOT a God of unconditional love like you are suggesting.

You know when people talk about judgement I can't help but think of this scene from that great Cult classic the prisioner

www.youtube.com...

Exactly thanks
2nd

a reply to: EasternShadow

a reply to: DpatC
What comes after Heaven or Hell?
Drum solo.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


It's when the drums stop that you need to worry - bass solo is next.

a reply to: DpatC

Heaven and hell are an invention from the middle ages to make people pay literally money for the salvation of their souls. It's safe to say they don't exist. Even from a religious standpoint one has to admit that.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DpatC

Heaven and hell are an invention from the middle ages to make people pay literally money for the salvation of their souls. It's safe to say they don't exist. Even from a religious standpoint one has to admit that.

No Sir you are wrong the concept of heaven was first introduced by the sumerians, a divine paradise a concept of this that was later handed down to the Babylonians who than went on to conquer Sumer..Now I like a pint a guinness and a bet on the horses now and again, now my gut feeling is the concept of heaven existed in civilisations that pre-date Marduck and Tiamat. All archeology has to do is find them and do a bit of translation. One exsample being Ubaid and those lizard type statues......I bet they had a concept of heaven and hell
Turn your speakers up loud for this classic from the cure
www.youtube.com...

What do you mean what comes after? You either are or you aren't. There is nothing else.

A2D

a reply to: DpatC

They had an afterlife, like every culture egyptians, vikings,... but no heaven or hell. Especially the fire lakes are from the middle ages.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DpatC

Heaven and hell are an invention from the middle ages to make people pay literally money for the salvation of their souls. It's safe to say they don't exist. Even from a religious standpoint one has to admit that.

The concept of an afterlife existed long before the middle ages. The fact that some people took advantage of the concept of the afterlife and used it to enrich themselves has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it's real in the first place. If there is a way to profit from something, somebody somewhere will find a way to do so. Your logic is like saying cancer obviously isn't real since some quack doctor somewhere convinced people that if they pay him $100 for a dose of magic water they'll never get it.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DpatC

They had an afterlife, like every culture egyptians, vikings,... but no heaven or hell. Especially the fire lakes are from the middle ages.

Okay so Kur wasn't hell!

I think better question is who comes after heaven and hell.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DpatC

They had an afterlife, like every culture egyptians, vikings,... but no heaven or hell. Especially the fire lakes are from the middle ages.

Do you imagine that if an afterlife is real, you suddenly exist there in a state of pure dullness without sensation, feelings or thought? Heaven and hell are words used to represent states within it. Yes, people at some point came along and used those words to scare people into giving them money. The fact that people did that does not mean that existences within the afterlife cannot be pleasant or unpleasant.

originally posted by: DpatC

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: DpatC

They had an afterlife, like every culture egyptians, vikings,... but no heaven or hell. Especially the fire lakes are from the middle ages.

Okay so Kur wasn't hell!

Exactly it was Kur. Without punishment and without reward, very different from the heaven/hell concept.

a reply to: trollz

I believe in an afterlife, but pleasure and the absence of it are concepts of the biological body and not the soul. Nobody knows of course what it's like to be dead, but you surely won't take your body with you. What would please you without a body?

originally posted by: Peeple
I believe in an afterlife, but pleasure and the absence of it are concepts of the biological body and not the soul.

You're getting two things wrong here. First, you're assuming that in the afterlife, you won't be able to experience physical pleasure. If you do have a body, then surely you would be able to. If you have a spiritual "body" but not a physical body, then how do you know this would not be able to experience sensations? If you live a life where your primary desire is a certain physical sensation or activity, then you will have something in the afterlife that resembles that. Perhaps such a desire is lower as opposed to higher in terms of spiritual development, but there is no reason it could not exist nonetheless.
Second, pleasure is absolutely a concept of soul as well. Many pleasures can be experienced without a body. Love is a perfect example of this. Or perhaps you would find pleasure in watching civilizations develop, or in helping guide its individual people away from hatred and towards kindness and compassion. Or maybe you just want to oversee the growth and health of a patch of forest. I know I'd certainly find pleasure in floating around a forest with no body and assisting the plants and creatures within it. There are countless pleasures of the soul, many of which we can't even fathom.

originally posted by: Peeple
Nobody knows of course what it's like to be dead, but you surely won't take your body with you. What would please you without a body?

No, you don't take your physical body with you, but just because your physical body dies here on Earth doesn't mean you're then eternally unable to have one. If a god has created the entire universe and afterlife, then it would be no trouble at all to give people a new body, even one that looks exactly like it did on the Earth, if desired. There are varying levels of physicality, so to say. I believe that some existences within the afterlife are still purely physical. If one is spiritually advanced enough, they could choose to forego a physical body altogether and experience things in a greater capacity than they could with one in the first place.

Have you ever enjoyed watching a movie? This act only requires your eyes; the arms and legs aren't involved in the process. But what if you could see without eyes, as a spirit? Can you not enjoy the same movie? Spirits can enjoy the same things that humans with bodies can... But they can also enjoy things that humans with bodies can't.

a reply to: trollz

A "spiritual body" is a rather absurde idea to me, something I simply can't imagine. The soul has no eyes that's a first hurdle where we already cross the physical with the spiritual.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: trollz

A "spiritual body" is a rather absurde idea to me, something I simply can't imagine. The soul has no eyes that's a first hurdle where we already cross the physical with the spiritual.

Of course a soul and a physical body are different. Why would they be the same thing? Physical bodies are shells for the soul to provide a unique experience, much like how a human might limit themselves by playing a video game in which their character can only carry out a specific amount of actions - and yet, despite the limitations of this character, the experience is fun.
Solids, liquids and gases are all physical materials. You can pass your hand effortlessly through gas, easily through liquid, but not through solid (at least easily). Despite all being physical, they are each distinct states of matter. In higher dimensions of existence, there are increasing variations, which include various types of what we consider "spiritual".
Can a tree perceive more than a rock? Can a cat perceive more than a tree? Can a human perceive more than a cat? Likewise, would it stand to reason that a spirit might perceive more than a human? Can your human eyes perceive the entire light spectrum? Can your ears hear all sounds? Could you tell, by touch, the difference between 78.2 and 78.3 degrees? A soul does not need eyes to perceive light or ears to perceive sound.

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: Peeple
I believe in an afterlife, but pleasure and the absence of it are concepts of the biological body and not the soul.

You're getting two things wrong here. First, you're assuming that in the afterlife, you won't be able to experience physical pleasure. If you do have a body, then surely you would be able to. If you have a spiritual "body" but not a physical body, then how do you know this would not be able to experience sensations? If you live a life where your primary desire is a certain physical sensation or activity, then you will have something in the afterlife that resembles that. Perhaps such a desire is lower as opposed to higher in terms of spiritual development, but there is no reason it could not exist nonetheless.
Second, pleasure is absolutely a concept of soul as well. Many pleasures can be experienced without a body. Love is a perfect example of this. Or perhaps you would find pleasure in watching civilizations develop, or in helping guide its individual people away from hatred and towards kindness and compassion. Or maybe you just want to oversee the growth and health of a patch of forest. I know I'd certainly find pleasure in floating around a forest with no body and assisting the plants and creatures within it. There are countless pleasures of the soul, many of which we can't even fathom.

originally posted by: Peeple
Nobody knows of course what it's like to be dead, but you surely won't take your body with you. What would please you without a body?

No, you don't take your physical body with you, but just because your physical body dies here on Earth doesn't mean you're then eternally unable to have one. If a god has created the entire universe and afterlife, then it would be no trouble at all to give people a new body, even one that looks exactly like it did on the Earth, if desired. There are varying levels of physicality, so to say. I believe that some existences within the afterlife are still purely physical. If one is spiritually advanced enough, they could choose to forego a physical body altogether and experience things in a greater capacity than they could with one in the first place.

Have you ever enjoyed watching a movie? This act only requires your eyes; the arms and legs aren't involved in the process. But what if you could see without eyes, as a spirit? Can you not enjoy the same movie? Spirits can enjoy the same things that humans with bodies can... But they can also enjoy things that humans with bodies can't.

That Sir is quite a brilliant explanation of what it's like to exist as Light! With that kind of insight I have a feeling that your future will be bright! Oops I think I gave the game away with Light - oh well, great explanation I will have to read that again

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

You spend all your time in hell and exorcists are the most hated... Hmm go figure lol.


Jaden