Dallas Officer Kills Man After Walking Into Wrong Apartment: Police

Looks as though the grand jury will determine what charge will be in play. There is talk of original debate between murder and manslaughter in the DPD.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I would wager that manslaughter will be the choice because its easier to get a conviction and get real jail time.

They will play the female card, probably try to slander the dead guy (abusive ex etc), and play up the entire angle of honorable police officer trying hard to bring in criminals etc.

It will all play well with any jury, if they go big and get a jury sympathetic to cops, or women then she walks, stick with something with a more flexible definition and at least they can try to get about 10 years.

I would be shocked if this makes it to a courtroom. Given the evidence a plea deal would be most likely.

Secondly the defendant gets to choose how they are tried - trial by jury or by judge. So a jury angle is not 100% set in stone.

In order to "slander" the victim they have to have evidence to support the accusation. Unless there was a prior history between the guy and the suspect OR the suspect worked a domestic violence / assault type call involving him all you would accomplish by attacking the dead is to piss of the jury and or a judge.

As for the female card it could be a factor however we need to know specifics about what happened from the point the guy opened the door to the point she shot him. In some circumstances a female can take actions for defense that a male would not be able to do. You have to compare the physical attributes of each person, level of training, history etc etc.

In this case I dont see gender as being a factor.

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: Xcathdra

I confess I only went by the OPs presentation; I did not click the link. I just don’t now how she could have gotten the wrong room, not noticed her key didn’t work, and didn’t notice any strange artwork or furniture before killing another person. Did she shoot through the door? Yes, I’m being lazy on this thread( believe it or not, I actually do have responsibilities despite my constant presence on this site)

From what I have read her keycode to the door didnt work. She then tried using her house key and in the process of trying to use it the victim opened the door and it went downhill from there.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Xcathdra

2 possibilities on how she got in -

* - 2 witnesses stated they heard her yelling open the door (or something along those lines).


* - The other reference I have seen says as she was trying to enter the apartment, the victim heard something/someone trying to come thru the door and went to see what was going on. He apparently opened the door as the lady was trying to use her key and things went downhill from there.

I read that too.

The arrest affidavit further reveals that Jean’s door was unlocked, and it was dark inside when Guyger entered his apartment. She allegedly thought he was a burglar when she saw a person in the dark, shooting Jean a single time in the chest after she told authorities he ignored verbal commands. The Dallas Morning News reported that she had just worked a 15-hour shift.

heavy.com...

If true, why was the door ajar and why was the guy standing in the dark? Is she lying? If so, just wow!

See I heard / read the door was unlocked however the public facts dont support that claim. If the door was unlocked then she never would have needed her code nor would she need to use her key. Not to mention the 2 witnesses claim they heard the suspect yelling at the guy to open the door. Again, if the door were unlocked she wouldnt need to be yelling for him to open the door.

There is a lot to this that doesnt make sense. The suspects version of events just doesnt seem accurate given her experience as a police officer (in my opinion). I still would like to see more evidence so I guess we wait for Walker: Texas Ranger to do their investigation and go from there.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Witness statements said she was in tears after the fact."

Good, just like the poor victim's parents and loved ones i imagine.

"No - according to her there was an intruder in her residence."

According to reality, however, that was most definitely not the case.

"I understand what you are saying. I am just pointing out that public evidence to date doesnt meet all the elements to charge her with murder."

I think Manslaughter as well to be honest, but I'm, not the prosecutor. Suppose it can't be ruled out through.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Not to mention the 2 witnesses claim they heard the suspect yelling at the guy to open the door. Again, if the door were unlocked she wouldnt need to be yelling for him to open the door.

I would tend to believe witnesses over the police officer in this case.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

That's a good point.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Looks as though the grand jury will determine what charge will be in play. There is talk of original debate between murder and manslaughter in the DPD.

The only way I could see murder is if the suspect, after the initial encounter with the victim, became aware that it was not her apartment but kept pushing the issue until it got to the point where she used deadly force.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: Xcathdra

I confess I only went by the OPs presentation; I did not click the link. I just don’t now how she could have gotten the wrong room, not noticed her key didn’t work, and didn’t notice any strange artwork or furniture before killing another person. Did she shoot through the door? Yes, I’m being lazy on this thread( believe it or not, I actually do have responsibilities despite my constant presence on this site)

From what I have read her keycode to the door didnt work. She then tried using her house key and in the process of trying to use it the victim opened the door and it went downhill from there.

Thank you. Yes I believe you are correct. The scenario you described sounds like manslaughter to me

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes, that is something that might get clarified.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Whatever the outcome i think its safe to say her career in law enforcement is over.

Keep in mind though that without any CCTV evidence or other witnesses, what she claims happened, is pretty much all that will be gleaned by way of her testimony.

The use of deadly force seems to be rather unwarranted given the mistake made by the officer in question nevermind the condition of the victim who for all intents and purpose simply answered his own door.

Her culpability really goes without question unless some other evidence or information raises its head.

Like i said through Manslaughter is my bet.

I've read through the thread and there are a couple points I haven't seen mentioned (I may have missed them). Not trying to defend the officer (at all), but rather just get some facts out there.

1. The apartment where the victim was shot was apparently directly below/above hers. If this is true, it's quite possible the hallways and apartment numbering could be very similar to floors above and below. Plus, it is highly likely that vertically separated apartments have the exact same floorplan (it's a construction cost thing).

2. In an ABC news report I saw last night (ABC news...blech, I know) it stated that according to her report she had left a key "fob" in her door when she left. Upon returning (to the wrong floor) she went to what she believed to be her door, and seeing a key "fob" in the door she believed it to be her apartment. (Never seen an apartment with a key "fob", but okay). In any case, this detail is probably worthy of some additional clarification

3. Several people have mentioned that the officer was involved in a previous shooting, and stated this is cause for a murder charge. The previous shooting will be wholly inadmissible in court for this event, and even the mere mention of it during proceedings could be a very real cause for a mistrial. This event and charge must stand on its own.

On a personal level, I think this event is just another example in a long list of why affirmative action for employment based on gender and physical stature add a deadly component to law enforcement. Officers who do not have the physical wherewithal to overpower an opponent physically default to using deadly force (in some cases immediately).

Just my .02, but I believe there is something to this.

a reply to: roadgravel

kzok.iheart.com...

Seems like Manslaughter it is then.

Have to wonder all the same, where did she get the £300,000 bail bond monies from?

Do the Police force spring for the cost?

I can see a Voluntary Manslaughter charge pled down to Manslaughter here. Unfortunately it is no longer about the victim. Right now it is all about how much the Lawyers can get for the victim's family and themselves. The Prosecutor's job is to represent the victim in court against the accused. There's no reason for the victim's family to have lawyers except for the Civil suit against the Officer, the City of Dallas and what ever other deep pockets they can find.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Have to wonder all the same, where did she get the £300,000 bail bond monies from?

Do the Police force spring for the cost?

You typically only have to put up 10% so she could have borrowed or collateralized to get that amount if she didn't have $30,000 on hand.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Cheers AugustusMasonicus as i don't really understand the bail system in the US other than the crap presented in Holywood movies.

Over here you are simply granted bail or you aren't, money is not required.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yes, right or wrong, many departments will post bond for officers. It's safer for everyone involved that way. They're not a particularly high flight risk, so it's not really any expenditure of taxpayer funds.

originally posted by: andy06shake
Cheers AugustusMasonicus as i don't really understand the bail system in the US other than the crap presented in Holywood movies.

Over here you are simply granted bail or you aren't, money is not required.

There's a good deal of discretion here with the judge. They could grant you bail or deny it and they can also permit you to pay 10% or the full amount (which can be almost like denial if bail is in the 6 or 7 figure range).

a reply to: roadgravel

Tragic. I was reading this article and this one paragraph stuck out for some reason.

Guyger then went into Jean's apartment and called 911. She turned on the lights and when dispatchers asked where she was, Guyger returned to the front door and discovered she was at the wrong apartment, the document says.

So after she shot him, she went into the apartment and called 911, in the dark. So she used his phone? They keep their phones in the exact same place? She thought she was in her own apt., how did she find the phone without turning on the lights first? Either they do keep their phones in the same place, or she knew where it was beforehand. Meaning, she had been in the apt. before, meaning, she knew the victim?

After she turned on the lights, she had to walk back to the front door to realise she was not in her own apartment? Now from what I understand, the place is furnished, and floor plans the same. But there was NOTHING to make her say to herself "hmmm...something is off here"? after she turned on the lights and walked back through the apartment to the front door? She had to return to the front door to figure that out? They have the same nick-knacks? Same pictures on the wall? Same everything? This is baffling to me. Maybe I'm not understanding correctly.

Also, the article says the door was ajar. Maybe he was expecting someone?

Just some thoughts.