Amesbury: Two collapse near Russian spy poisoning site

A man and woman are in a critical condition after being exposed to an unknown substance, which counter terrorism officers are investigating.

The pair, in their 40s, were found unconscious in a suspected drugs-related incident at a house in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday.

It is understood tests are being carried out on the substance at a government chemical weapons laboratory.

Amesbury is about eight miles from the Salisbury Russian spy poisoning site.

Former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok, a suspected military nerve agent, in March.

The substance Novichok was identified by the defence research facility at Porton Down which is understood to be carrying out tests on the latest substance.

Amesbury: Two collapse near Russian spy poisoning site

There has been another case of suspected nerve agent or chemical weapons attack in the UK, only 8 miles away from the last location.

What I simply cannot understand is why noone is talking about Porton Down, being just the place we would have samples stored of Novichok or whatever this new substance turns out to be.

I never really bought the Russia story. It's not their MO. Russian intelligence agencies are crude, but mostly effective. I can't imaging them messing up a hit so badly.

Now it has happened again, I think we need to seriously ask ourselves whether samples from Porton Down have made their way into the wrong hands. I'm thinking a "disgruntled employee" or potentially a case of radicalisation at the facility.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


I'm in Salisbury. General opinion is because an as yet unknown substance - could be anything - this is the required response.

It is not a suspected nerve agent attack or anything except in your head.

Plenty of Russian hits have been botched in the past.

To early to speculate really.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


I'm in Salisbury. General opinion is because an as yet unknown substance - could be anything - this is the required response.

It is not a suspected nerve agent attack or anything except in your head.

Plenty of Russian hits have been botched in the past.

To early to speculate really.

Meeow!!

Surely the Hazmat suits are a bit overboard if they didn't suspect foul play?

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


Just saying.

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


Standard response, apparently. Health and safety.

The MSM is keeping tight lipped about the whole thing. No mention of nationality of the pair and no mention of what the substance could be. Being as the MSM jumped almost instantly on the Novichok incident as being Novichok, this smells wrong.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


Just saying.

Fair enough, I get what you're saying, but this is a conspiracy site after all.

originally posted by: crayzeed
The MSM is keeping tight lipped about the whole thing. No mention of nationality of the pair and no mention of what the substance could be. Being as the MSM jumped almost instantly on the Novichok incident as being Novichok, this smells wrong.

I thought THAT smelt wrong at the time.

a reply to: oldcarpy

It's funny how everyone that tried to deny the Skripal assassination attempt having a Russian source are making a big deal about this event and then using it to discredit the previous event.

Everything I've read about this current event is that it is most likely drug related and not a major concern.

I am not even sure that the Russians were behind the other event. But there is more of a probability with that one than with this one. We just have to wait and see, but I do not see any evidence of these people being someone the Russians might target yet. You should consider intent, what reason do the Russians have to poison these two people who might be drug users since that is originally what the police there thought it was, an overdose or bad drugs.

Sky News are reporting that friends of the couple claimed that the critically ill pair found something in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury. The gardens are just a few streets away from the area where the Skripals were found on the bench.

Map link to Queen Elizabeth Gardens, Salisbury

Apparently the couple had a picnic in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens down by the river.

Guardian news article

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner


I'm in Salisbury. General opinion is because an as yet unknown substance - could be anything - this is the required response.

It is not a suspected nerve agent attack or anything except in your head.

Plenty of Russian hits have been botched in the past.

To early to speculate really.

What do you reckon now mate? Seems sketchy to me...

originally posted by: rickymouse
I am not even sure that the Russians were behind the other event. But there is more of a probability with that one than with this one. We just have to wait and see, but I do not see any evidence of these people being someone the Russians might target yet. You should consider intent, what reason do the Russians have to poison these two people who might be drug users since that is originally what the police there thought it was, an overdose or bad drugs.

Thing is, if this is something a) accidental or b) homegrown terrorism, we are going to look very foolish when we have to say sorry to Putin with pie all over our faces.

Could it just be that both events are related, but have nothing to do with Russia, but we assumed it did simply because the victims were ex Russian intelligence. That could have been completely random.

Confirmed as Novichok - Breaking press conference from Metropolitan Police.

originally posted by: tommyjo
Sky News are reporting that friends of the couple claimed that the critically ill pair found something in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury. The gardens are just a few streets away from the area where the Skripals were found on the bench.

Map link to Queen Elizabeth Gardens, Salisbury

Apparently the couple had a picnic in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens down by the river.

Guardian news article

So again eating or being by the river. Doesn't that river feed down from the bio lab? Could it be possible that it is toxic Cyanobacteria from algae blooms, maybe inadvertently weaponised algae blooms from lab run off, got on their hands and then contaminated them when they ate their picnic?

a reply to: tommyjo
If it was real Novichok, wouldn't they be dead by now? Isn't Novichok supposed to be a seriously fast acting deadly nerve agent? Oh wait, don't panic, so long as you wipe everything down with baby wipes and give your clothes a wash, as per previous government advice, we will all be fine

originally posted by: CthulhuMythos
a reply to: tommyjo
If it was real Novichok, wouldn't they be dead by now? Isn't Novichok supposed to be a seriously fast acting deadly nerve agent? Oh wait, don't panic, so long as you wipe everything down with baby wipes and give your clothes a wash, as per previous government advice, we will all be fine

So what about degraded Novichok? If exposed to degraded Novichok and excellent first aid and medical assistance is on hand then why can't those contaminated survive? Yes if there is no medical assistance then those contaminated are likely to die. The key here is the prompt medical care and likely administration of atropine.

The advice is basic and sound in regards to dealing with possible contamination. How do you think that the military decontaminate?

OPCW on decontamination

originally posted by: CthulhuMythos

originally posted by: tommyjo
Sky News are reporting that friends of the couple claimed that the critically ill pair found something in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury. The gardens are just a few streets away from the area where the Skripals were found on the bench.

Map link to Queen Elizabeth Gardens, Salisbury

Apparently the couple had a picnic in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens down by the river.

Guardian news article

So again eating or being by the river. Doesn't that river feed down from the bio lab? Could it be possible that it is toxic Cyanobacteria from algae blooms, maybe inadvertently weaponised algae blooms from lab run off, got on their hands and then contaminated them when they ate their picnic?

Or they simply found the dispenser/canister discarded in the gardens. It was assessed that the Novichok was dispensed in a gel to target the Skripals. Either the Skripal gel dispenser or another gel dispenser disposed of.

a reply to: tommyjo

assessed

That sounds too much like a guess to me

It would be much easier to swallow if they weren't consistently levying accusations at Russia without evidence and the damn proximity to Porton Down wasn't so painfully obvious. There is no logic in Russia exposing themselves by using a Russian-linked nerve agent. Why not use Sarin/VX (commonly available to terrorists) or their signature radioactive substances.

Chemical weapons vs. radiological attacks are not comparable. One way results in reliable death while the other does not (and is readily treatable by field personnel). If they were enough of a target to warrant risking an Article 5 NATO declaration then they would be worth utilizing the appropriate agents (which has been Polonium in past suspected Russian assassinations).

I find it far too convenient that they've tried and failed twice, while seemingly being caught red handed (scary name and all). And the proximity to Porton Down cannot be ignored.

This has false flag written all over it, if the Russian canard is yet again flung into their alternative narrative. Otherwise, it can reliably be an accident from PD facility itself. Third option is an actual Russian attack or an attack by a third party intent to frame Russia. Just seems unlikely, since the Russian canard is the declining left's go-to explanation for events that don't turn out as the left commanded. The election of Donald Trump: Russia, the BREXIT vote: Russia, congress: Russia, Chemical weapons: Russia, Ukraine: Russia instead of Nuland/Obama, etc.