God is not Science, it's claims are not Scientific

a reply to: noonebutme

I'm not exaggerating. There are millions of people of faith who would like to see people like me dead because I don't believe or follow their views.

edit on 1-6-2018 by noonebutme

Just because they claim to have faith doen't mean
they do. You can tell by their works if a person
has faith in God and would wish death on no one.
But I think you know that.

Same ol shlt constantly.

a reply to: luthier

Actually it is scientific because you can't have moore's law without ultimately concluding God will exist. For example God is a super all intelligence who creates all things. At least that's the belief. Well if you believe in moore's law you would quickly realize eventually society will reach the technological singularity AND artificial intelligence will far surpass the human intelligence and ability. It doesn't take a particularly bright person to deduce someplace, in the realm of billions of years, could have produced super intelligent AI which went out of control and took over.

By 2043 computers will be as smart as human having full cognitive ability. By 2100 1 computer will be smarter than all the human brains on earth put together. What happens then if by 2200 every computer on earth is linked to one cloud brain? God is completely and likely to happen scientifically speaking of course..

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Does it mean that 'you' are god?

God is 'all' seeing!!
That which is seeing and knowing there is existence appearing, is God.
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

Instead of looking out into the world, look toward That which is looking - no thing will be found and when there is no thing there is peace that surpasses all understanding.

a reply to: randyvs

But "these people", who I haven't specifically named, believe I am an infidel and because I do not believe in their views, I am an enemy and should be killed, based on their holy text.

You yourself have said you have no issue with any word in the bible. The small percentage of these people (which equates to roughly 75-100 million), while not following the bible, follow their religious texts very...'religiously'. And these texts have very explicit views on non-believers and non-followers of their faith.

So when I said millions of people want people like me dead, I was not exaggerating.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

God is 'all' seeing!!
That which is seeing and knowing there is existence appearing, is God.
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

Instead of looking out into the world, look toward That which is looking - no thing will be found and when there is no thing there is peace that surpasses all understanding.

Well said. If the Truth is outside of us, then it has nothing to do with us. But If it is within us then we are the focal point of all creation.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

God is 'all' seeing!!
That which is seeing and knowing there is existence appearing, is God.
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

Instead of looking out into the world, look toward That which is looking - no thing will be found and when there is no thing there is peace that surpasses all understanding.

Well said. If the Truth is outside of us, then it has nothing to do with us. But If it is within us then we are the focal point of all creation.

That which appears is not really 'outside'.
The truth is hidden in plain sight - in the act of seeing. Nothing can appear outside the seeing or knowing of it - if it can it cannot be proven!

a reply to: randyvs

Yet we may indeed see organic materials become sentient and/or bestowed with artificial intelligence well beyond our ability to comprehend in our present biological condition in only a few decades to come with no "divine spark" other than the photon/electron.

We dont know what it takes to create life as we know it in the entirety. Water, food, oxygen, heat and pressure seem to be required to maintain homeostasis, that's a given.

But the basic building blocks could comprise of anything really that can form order from chaos.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: randyvs

Yet we may indeed see organic materials become sentient and/or bestowed with artificial intelligence well beyond our ability to comprehend in our present biological condition in only a few decades to come with no "divine spark" other than the photon/electron.

We dont know what it takes to create life as we know it in the entirety. Water, food, oxygen, heat and pressure seem to be required to maintain homeostasis, that's a given.

But the basic building blocks could comprise of anything really that can form order from chaos.

Or furthermore what creates consciousness and why.

a reply to: luthier

Consciousness may be self emergent or it may emanate from the quantum realm if indeed our brain turns out to display a link.

Quite possibly our minds are a bridge or the interface that allows us to perceive the macro 3 dimensional universe in the manner that we think we experience.

a reply to: andy06shake

This is a possibility. Why does the universe need this?

a reply to: luthier

Because maybe the universe is also sentient and/or connected to the quantum realm in ways we have as of yet to determine.

Or intelligence may simply be a byproduct of chaos theory, after all dynamic systems, of which our universe seem to qualify, produce order(intelligence) from chaos.

a reply to: andy06shake

Sure. I am down with this thought. Like I keep saying Spinoza is one of my favorites. Pantheism makes sense to me.

a reply to: luthier


Huh since when?

As far as I remember religion and science have always butt heads.

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: luthier


Huh since when?

As far as I remember religion and science have always butt heads.

Since when what?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Does it mean that 'you' are god?

God is 'all' seeing!!
That which is seeing and knowing there is existence appearing, is God.
Saint Francis of Assisi said 'We are looking for what is looking'.

Instead of looking out into the world, look toward That which is looking - no thing will be found and when there is no thing there is peace that surpasses all understanding.

Not what I asked, but enjoy...

a reply to: randyvs

You can tell by their works if a person
has faith in God

What works should we be looking for when determining who qualifies as a "True Christian"?

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: luthier

If the claim is that something exists, or that, that thing has some kind of properties, then it is clearly a matter that science can be used to validate or invalidate.

We may not be able to say 100% that it does not exist, but based on what claims are being made, we can evaluate and calculate the probability based on the evidence provided.

The properties of God exceed our limited human comprehension, so it's a little tricky to define them for validation.

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: luthier


Huh since when?

As far as I remember religion and science have always butt heads.

As a Christian and a scientist, the only time when they are in conflict is when you have a dogmatic literalist zealot versus a cold logical rationalizer, i.e. the extremes.

When you take a deep breath then exhale, and allow yourself to take in the wonders of our reality you start to see how the universe cannot easily be treated as an accident and start seeing what could be described as a design.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I can tell if you promise not to persecute.

a reply to: Kandinsky

It's provided social cohesion of groups for several thousand years. Just maybe we have survived this far because we've been selecting for faith-based belief. 

It’s an interesting idea. However, faith-based belief doesn’t increase our chances of survival against the wild cat hiding in tall grass more than basing decisions on what’s observed. Our survival, I would think, has always had a direct relationship with tangible consequences, and faith doesn’t concern itself with that (if it did, the belief wouldn’t call for faith). Our ancestors that ignored observational evidence in favor of magical thinking probably fell to calamity more frequently than those that were not, and therefor made fewer babies.

You mention social cohesion, and what I expressed before is mostly in agreement there. I agree with Freud (not often said hah), religion is the result of our fear of death. In that sense, I would agree religion has a biological basis as self-preservation has deep biological roots. ‘Magical thinking’ arises as a way to cope with the stress of minds struggling to make sense of things unknown to it. I’m fine with calling tendency towards faith social evolution.

I’m not sold on the idea faith/magical thinking are heritable characteristics. Especially in light of the fact there is not uniformity within nations in terms of religiosity. Religiosity also appears to be on a downward trend… in societal terms, practically over night; so how would that be explained if those traits have strong biological roots?

What I mean is there is a biological something that has driven people and continues to.

The drive to be alive. What does the descriptions of Heaven and Hell have in common? You’re conscious of the experiences in both.

I’m not sure we can divest ourselves of the tendency towards magical thinking or faith-based beliefs.

Perhaps if not religion then some other system of belief will be invented that calls upon faith-based belief. Perhaps that’s inescapable on a societal level. If that’s what you’re saying, then I’m inclined to agree that’s certainly a possible outcome. In fact, I would bank on that being true until we attain ‘clinical immortality’ and or other advances in tech that alleviate the myriad of dire concerns towards bodily health and consciousness.

Obviously I reserve the right to condemn those who use religion to create chaos , abuse and deaths. Otherwise I guess I see most people's faiths (in my experience) as benign.

I’ve always viewed the belief in god(s), or any metaphysical construct, as benign. For that reason, I do not oppose people holding those beliefs at all. In fact, it usually makes for fascinating discussion.

Religion takes dangerous steps beyond harmlessness when they purport to know the wishes and demands of god(s). Religion obviously influences society in very consequential ways. Many societal issues of sexism, racism, and homophobia stem from theologically defensible positions (as I know you already know), for example. Simply holding belief in realms of existence beyond the physical Universe? I take zero issue with that.