More Never Trumpers waking up to the Russia collusion farce, when will you?

Here's another one who doesn't care for Trump and has finally woken up

I've been seeing more and more of this on social media. People are realizing they've been had on the Trump-Russia collusion narrative.

In the last week, as revelation upon revelation hit that Obama administration officials and career employees of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) spied on the Donald Trump campaign in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election, the mainstream media, the Left, and Never Trump Republicans have fallen back on three ready responses.

A solid plurality of this contingent continue to avert their eyes from the facts and dismiss the claims of misconduct as peddled by tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorists. There is not much you can say to this faction, because they refuse to consider the proof.

A second—and more extreme group—believes Trump conspired with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary Clinton. There is not much you can say to this bunch either, because they are tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorists.

But the final group sees things differently. While they don’t necessarily believe Trump was treasonous, they argue that the FBI and other intelligence-gathering agencies rightly targeted the Trump campaign. With Russian-leaning Paul Manafort and Carter Page involved in the campaign, and Trump trolling Hillary with praise for Vladimir Putin, the government could not just ignore the risk, they posit. And there was no impropriety in doing so.

We've got a scary number of posters here who are still solidly in group 2. To be honest, I understand the group 3 folks. I was there when this story first broke. Of course I was concerned, although skeptical given the frothing at the mouth negativity toward Trump from the media (see how that damages your credibility?). But I'm open to evidence, of which there's, so far, been none produced. And the impression of illegitimacy keeps mounting. This was the line for her:

For two years, I teetered between that third contingent and utter disinterest. But then we learned that the DOJ intentionally failed to inform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court that the Democratic National Committee had paid for the Christopher Steele dossier. That unverified and mainly false dossier formed a significant part of the government’s application for a wiretap for former Trump aide Page.

This admission changed everything for me: I had spent nearly 25 years reviewing challenges to warrants based on claims of withheld (or false) evidence. However, unlike the typical criminal case in which a defendant later has access to the warrant application, in the case of a FISA court order, the target cannot view the information the government used to obtain a wiretap, making FISA court proceedings ripe for abuse.

My rule of law alarms went off. Trump’s criticism of the Russia collusion investigation no longer sounded staged, and he no longer seemed paranoid. Then the revelations kept coming, as did leaks intended to harm Trump, change the narrative, or soften soon-to-be released news of other misconduct.

There are still folks who try to rationalize this away. The article isn't all-encompassing, and there are surely more substantive posts here detailing all the nuts and bolts. I just thought it was an interesting read to share, and if it wakes just one of our resident Never-Trumpers up (I'm not holding my breath), it's worth a share.

My point here is not to catalogue every piece of circumstantial evidence demonstrating impropriety. I’m surely missing some substantial threads. Rather, my goal is to illustrate why Crossfire Hurricane can no longer be assumed an apolitical and legitimate investigation. Those pointing out this reality are not Trump apologists: we are patriots.

Just wondering where the line will be for the rest of you?

a reply to: face23785


I initially wanted the investigation because I think that no matter who the person is, if you broke the law, you should be punished.


But the more that gets exposed, the more I see this as an illegal investigation from the onset with doctored "dossiers" and contrived "evidence".


I now see this as an illegal attempted coup of a sitting president.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: face23785


I initially wanted the investigation because I think that no matter who the person is, if you broke the law, you should be punished.


But the more that gets exposed, the more I see this as an illegal investigation from the onset with doctored "dossiers" and contrived "evidence".


I now see this as an illegal attempted coup of a sitting president.

and the people responsible need to be punished for treason.

That is the death penalty..

a reply to: face23785

Odd characterization by the author of groups that people fall into. I know there are others like myself who believe that Trump's campaign eagerly sought information from the Russians and that the Russians were all too willing to spy on both parties to get in favor with whoever won. The Democrats turned them away, but eager novices like DJT Jr hopped to the bait.

And I think there's enough evidence for that stance.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: face23785

I now see this as an illegal attempted coup of a sitting president.

It would be difficult to reconcile the past 2 years without taking this into consideration - they stacked the deck in their(her) favour, then further attempted to rig the game right up until November, having all the TVs spouting the likes of '93% chance of winning' crap in all directions hoping it would stick.

Then on November 9th, suddenly the Russians were front page - weird!

a reply to: face23785

Threads like this do more to make me believe you guys want to end the investigation illegitimately than it does to convince me that the actual investigation is illegitimate.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: face23785

Threads like this do more to make me believe you guys want to end the investigation illegitimately than it does to convince me that the actual investigation is illegitimate.

That's interesting considering neither I nor the author called for the investigation to end. Maybe you shouldn't make # up. In fact, I'd advise the President against trying to end it prematurely. I'd just let it drag on to it's natural conclusion. If they're hoping it hurts the Republicans for the midterms, it looks like it's having the opposite effect. People are sick of it and are realizing it's been a farce. It's making the Democrats look bad. When Mueller finishes up and has nothing on Trump but a few uncrossed Ts on a financial form from 10 years ago, what will the #resisters do then?

a reply to: face23785

If you say so. I don't believe you, but ok.

originally posted by: Byrd
a reply to: face23785

Odd characterization by the author of groups that people fall into. I know there are others like myself who believe that Trump's campaign eagerly sought information from the Russians and that the Russians were all too willing to spy on both parties to get in favor with whoever won. The Democrats turned them away, but eager novices like DJT Jr hopped to the bait.

And I think there's enough evidence for that stance.

You were actually making some sense until the bolded portion, where your partisanship started showing. I guess you forgot about the Steele dossier, which turned out to be nothing but Russian propaganda that the Democrats, either knowingly or unwittingly, paid the Russians for. They played right into Putin's hands, since the intelligence community determined his main goal was to sew discord and division in American politics. And ever since then all they've been doing has been doubling down on this conspiracy theory, which is what Putin wants.

There were times when I was nearly spellbound by this farce, but again and again their story has been dashed. I don’t know how anyone but the most desperate can still entertain it.

Did you see Hilary as, Russian leaning?

She got a lot of money from them

I have no issue with trump being looked at, it Hillary had more Russian meanings and if she wasn’t what does that say...

originally posted by: Byrd
a reply to: face23785

Odd characterization by the author of groups that people fall into. I know there are others like myself who believe that Trump's campaign eagerly sought information from the Russians and that the Russians were all too willing to spy on both parties to get in favor with whoever won. The Democrats turned them away, but eager novices like DJT Jr hopped to the bait.

And I think there's enough evidence for that stance.

if there was, I'd think impeachment would be in process. I think "evidence" is subjective.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: face23785

If you say so. I don't believe you, but ok.

If you have to believe fairy tales you made up out of thin air to protect your baseless post rather than just admit you were wrong, that's okay I guess. You don't know me well enough to read my mind through forum posts. The fact that you think you do is hilarious. It doesn't surprise me though. A lot of what I see you post isn't based in reality,

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: face23785

If you say so. I don't believe you, but ok.

it's cool, I don't believe you either.

a reply to: face23785

I know you well enough to know that you don't waste much time before you lose patience and start slinging insults and ad hominems at someone for disagreeing with you. I see you didn't disappoint here.


Have fun "discussing" your opinion piece from a right wing source telling you what you wanted to hear already.

So far no evidence has been produced?

That's the funniest thingies ever read.

a reply to: face23785

Yes absolutely right.

The dmeocrats not only took dirt from kremlin agents, but their friends at Obamas fbi used that kremlin based info to help get wiretaps on Trump associates.

Meanwhile, what dirt did don jr or anyone else on the trump team solicit and get?

Nothing at all.

The only side that got dirt they asked for from russians was Hillarys team, and yet some people completely ignore this and act like there seeking and getting dirt from russia was acceptable.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
So far no evidence has been produced?

That's the funniest thingies ever read.

You're drunk, Hillary. Go to bed...

People who hate Trump will do anything and justify any means necessary to try and remove him from office.

Nothing will change their minds, it is pointless to even try.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
So far no evidence has been none produced?

That's the funniest thingies ever read.

It's like you're trying to English, but keep reverting to Russian syntax.

Hitting the vodka early, bahboolya?