In Arizona, teaching creationism is supported by 4 of 5 Republicans who want to oversee education

originally posted by: dragonridr
If your not religious you dont see any long term effects and make decisions not on beliefs but on emotions.

Why would you think that? I care about people and the world I live in. I don't want it to degrade an fall due to my actions.

I love my family and friends. Why on earth do i need religion to "keep me in check" ? The people you are talking about are sociopaths. not the majority of human society.

And shall we turn this OP into a mudslinging fest of which recent atrocity was committed by which religious group?

a reply to: randyvs

It doesn't even seem odd to atheists that ZERO is the number of shootings in Christian schools.

I hadn't even considered that. However, if we look at the attendance of Christian schools in the scope of the whole educational system, it's minuscule. And statistically, the number of school shootings is rather small in the context of the all the schools in the US. So, from a mathematical standpoint, it hasn't happened in Christian schools because it's so statistically unlikely.

A few questions for you:
1. Do you see the secularism of the public school system to be a recent phenomena? If so, when did it start?

2. What about Christian schools makes them a better learning environment than secular schools?

3. Why do you believe that Christian schools are less likely to have student shooting incidents?

I would be interested in getting your perspective. If this debate is ever to be settled, we all have to start listening to one another.

-dex

a reply to: peter vlar

Intelligent design is a theory that many believe, not to teach it is akin to brainwashing
It doesn't have to be the Abrahamic narrative
Like it or not, people believe in intelligent design
I don't believe in evolution but I believe evolution should be taught to everyone
Because if you don't know what another person understands or thinks...

I just can't understand the concept, deny ignorance and here you want school children to not know what other people think
I don't believe in Islam but people need to understand Islam

a reply to: Raggedyman

I pretty much agree, so long as it isn't taught in the science room.

If it needs to be taught as part of a curriculum, then keep it under the Humanities, or RE or whichever *non-science based* classroom a school chooses.

originally posted by: projectvxn
Pandering to religious idiots.

Evolution is the basis of biology. If you dont like it stop going to the doctor.

Biology may be the basis of evolution but there is much in biology that isn't evolution.

... and the inference that one must not seek medical attention does not even slightly connect rationally.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: Raggedyman

I pretty much agree, so long as it isn't taught in the science room.

If it needs to be taught as part of a curriculum, then keep it under the Humanities, or RE or whichever *non-science based* classroom a school chooses.

Well it's not science so no issues there

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: DexterRiley

I'm not going to argue with atheist denial
about the obvious negative results of their
secularism on the gov. school system.

It doesn't even seem odd to atheists
that ZERO is the number of shootings
in Christian schools.

So why argue?

Pretty sure that ZERO is the number of shootings in Military schools as well.

Strange right? No shootings. Ah, maybe its because private schools seem to be better for even troubled students than public schools. Smaller classrooms better-paid teachers seem to do wonders.

a reply to: Raggedyman

If we omit Young Earth theory, and stay away from the Abrahamic narrative, I believe that Intelligent Design theory could be presented in about one page of a text book. Since there's no solid evidence for ID, it shouldn't take up much space. It could be stashed away in Fun Factoid Block with the title "Hey Kids, guess what some people believe."

Now if you throw in a 6000 year old Earth with Adam and Eve riding around on the back of a dinosaur like Alley Oop, that would be a bit more problematic.


-dex

a reply to: noonebutme

Or which non religious group, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot
Hirohito believed that allied soldiers where sub human and less evolved that the Japanese

It's a human condition, I am not advocating the church either, it has as many faults as secular society

Don't think either side has the right to ping the other group over self righteousness

a reply to: Raggedyman

Don't think either side has the right to ping the other group over self righteousness

And yet you do this all the time. Hypocrite much?

Master Coomba of Ignorance.

a reply to: DexterRiley

I would suggest if you believe that, you need to spend a bit of time studying the intelligent design argument
You are commenting out of ignorance

I could spend a page explaining abiogenesis and why that is scientificaly unlikely
Why dark matter and string theory is the latest rage in the scientific community, never mind the elements arising from nowhere

But I don't think you would understand because you just don't know
But hey, it's ok to remain ignorant

a reply to: Raggedyman

His not the one talking out of ignorance youngling.

A mirror will show you the true bearer of ignorance.

Master Coomba

originally posted by: coomba98
a reply to: Raggedyman

His not the one talking out of ignorance youngling.

A mirror will show you the true bearer of ignorance.

Master Coomba

You need to get a life

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: DexterRiley

I would suggest if you believe that, you need to spend a bit of time studying the intelligent design argument
You are commenting out of ignorance

I could spend a page explaining abiogenesis and why that is scientificaly unlikely
Why dark matter and string theory is the latest rage in the scientific community, never mind the elements arising from nowhere

But I don't think you would understand because you just don't know
But hey, it's ok to remain ignorant

Actually you're right. I was commenting out of ignorance. And, I was also a bit more flippant than I intended to be. I was doing the exact opposite of what I proposed earlier. That is, we should start listening to one another. I stand corrected.

I admit that my knowledge of ID is quite limited. However, I was under the impression that ID was primarily concerned with the evolution of life on earth. But, if I understand you correctly, sciences other than Biology need to be examined in a different light. For instance you imply that Cosmology and Particle Physics need to be examined in the context of ID. Is that a valid assumption?

-dex

a reply to: Raggedyman

You need to get a life

I already have one, apparently your god gave it too me.

Master Coomba

a reply to: DexterRiley

We as a species seem to think we are far smarter than what we are
There still remains more questions than answers

Quantum physics, electro magnetism, bosons and gravitons don't make sense on an individual level, it's important that we understand them but I also understand that " God did it" doesn't really explain anything either
To be honest, I don't really know where it would start or finish
Intelligent design includes just about every subject

Never really thought about it on that scale, bit tricky

We don't even understand the basic laws of the universe

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: dragonridr
If your not religious you dont see any long term effects and make decisions not on beliefs but on emotions.

Why would you think that? I care about people and the world I live in. I don't want it to degrade an fall due to my actions.

I love my family and friends. Why on earth do i need religion to "keep me in check" ? The people you are talking about are sociopaths. not the majority of human society.

And shall we turn this OP into a mudslinging fest of which recent atrocity was committed by which religious group?

Your proving my point emotions can be a motivator. And unfortunate that some times it can be bad ones like fear or anger. Religion was designed to control these emotions through fear. The kings were not stupid so they create this diety to watch over you even when they cant. Same role for Santa Claus and kids. Why do you think parents told kids Santa is watching? You remove religions one of the controls used to control mankind is removed.

As for which is better I guess depends on the individual. Some need that guidance others do not.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: dragonridr
If your not religious you dont see any long term effects and make decisions not on beliefs but on emotions.

Why would you think that? I care about people and the world I live in. I don't want it to degrade an fall due to my actions.

I love my family and friends. Why on earth do i need religion to "keep me in check" ? The people you are talking about are sociopaths. not the majority of human society.

And shall we turn this OP into a mudslinging fest of which recent atrocity was committed by which religious group?

Your proving my point emotions can be a motivator. And unfortunate that some times it can be bad ones like fear or anger. Religion was designed to control these emotions through fear. The kings were not stupid so they create this diety to watch over you even when they cant. Same role for Santa Claus and kids. Why do you think parents told kids Santa is watching? You remove religions one of the controls used to control mankind is removed.

As for which is better I guess depends on the individual. Some need that guidance others do not.

originally posted by: dragonridr
As for which is better I guess depends on the individual. Some need that guidance others do not.

I would argue none of us do. I don't think murder, rape and theft were considered 'normal' before the 10 commandments. If it were, our species would have died out long before.

Religion may or may not help people. I can agree that for some, it helps them. However I would question that person's motives, if it takes a make believe deity in the sky with the threat of eternal damnation to keep you on the straight and narrow, versus wanting to work *with* your fellow man out of human solidarity.

If religion is meant to 'keep people being good' then arguably, how is that a genuine deterrent? It's masking a much deeper flaw in that/those people.

a reply to: noonebutme

So are you saying murder, rape and theft happen
That people are all nice and kind
Really...

I want to live where you are